Pangaea wrote:

paleocon wrote:

freakonature wrote:
hahahahaha, What would the cited sources of this book be?  Are you sure you could explain the war on "terror" and Iraq?  Aren't the views of said home schooled children skewed toward their parents' views?

Thank you for proving my point!  Evidently you think it is perfectly acceptable for public school teachers to indoctrinate kids with their liberal views but object to citizens doing the same.  Classical liberal double-speak.  As a political science major I am pretty sure I can explain the war on terror and the situation in Iraq to my children.  Unlike public school teachers I usually provide several perspectives on subjects.  

My kids are home schooled and know how to cite references from the library and the internet.  I am guessing most public schooled children don't know where to find the local public library.  Of course, my 6th grade child only scored on 12 Grade + levels on her last state mandated standardized test in almost every subject area.  Clearly she is not getting the same education as her public schooled peers.

How sad.
Teaching is the most important job in the world.
They are underpaid, school funding is less and less because of budget cuts, the class rooms are over crowded, the home life of a lot of these kids is horrible  all of this is getting worse and you compare this to your home schooled kids?

Umm, wheres the I blame bush? And yes I wouldn't go to a public school I go to a private school because my parents are fortuneate enough to be able to send me which is a great thing but don't bash him because of his kids being homeschooled they're costing you less for the school system since hes using his money on teaching him while hes still paying taxes, and paleocon you know what I mean by this.

Pangaea wrote:How sad.
Teaching is the most important job in the world.
They are underpaid, school funding is less and less because of budget cuts, the class rooms are over crowded, the home life of a lot of these kids is horrible  all of this is getting worse and you compare this to your home schooled kids?

How sad?  What is sad?  The fact that many school boards spend 9,000 or 13,000 per pupil to educate kids and then turn around and find out a significant percentage of those kids can't read by the time they graduate high school?  Yes, that would be sad.  Teaching is one of the most important jobs in the world.  It is a shame that good teachers aren't properly rewarded and that terrible teachers aren't terminated before they ruin the education of more kids.  I can't find a place in the country that is actually spending less to per pupil than they did in any previous year.  What county or state do you live in?  Education is failing because of bad teachers, bad administration, and bad educational theory being foisted on the consumer.  It has nothing to do with lack of money.  

And my point is precisely that my wife and I value building a good home life for our children.  We choose to do things to make a good home life and provide them an education that the state refuses to provide.  Yes, we are contrasting our kids and our choices to a miserable, failed model of public education.

paleocon wrote:

Pangaea wrote:How sad.
Teaching is the most important job in the world.
They are underpaid, school funding is less and less because of budget cuts, the class rooms are over crowded, the home life of a lot of these kids is horrible  all of this is getting worse and you compare this to your home schooled kids?

How sad?  What is sad?  The fact that many school boards spend 9,000 or 13,000 per pupil to educate kids and then turn around and find out a significant percentage of those kids can't read by the time they graduate high school?  Yes, that would be sad.  Teaching is one of the most important jobs in the world.  It is a shame that good teachers aren't properly rewarded and that terrible teachers aren't terminated before they ruin the education of more kids.  I can't find a place in the country that is actually spending less to per pupil than they did in any previous year.  What county or state do you live in?  Education is failing because of bad teachers, bad administration, and bad educational theory being foisted on the consumer.  It has nothing to do with lack of money.  

And my point is precisely that my wife and I value building a good home life for our children.  We choose to do things to make a good home life and provide them an education that the state refuses to provide.  Yes, we are contrasting our kids and our choices to a miserable, failed model of public education.

Search this:
Bush budget cuts education

Public education is not failing.
But it does have failurs.
Its mostly because of the parents that dont care.
My wife is a teacher, I live in a blue collar city, I have a front row seat.

Boy, it's funny that this thread is titled "Uninformed American", and lo and behold: One shows up!

Pangaea, you suggested a search of "Bush budget cuts education", so I did just that.  It appears that you did not read one single link that came up as a result of the search, but simply relied upon the titles of the articles that came up on the search.  

I must ask you, are the Headings of a Google search what you consider to be good sources of information?

If you had read even ONE article (or had basic common knowledge of what goes on in Washington), you would have realized that the budget cuts that you blame never came about.  These alleged "cuts" were proposed by the President, but were never passed by Congress.  Therefore, these non-existent "cuts" could not possibly be to blame for poor public education, as you suggest.

Furthermore, you should understand that what the media means by a budget "cut" is not actually a cut at all.  If education spending has been increasing by 5% every year, and then it is increased by only 4% in the next year -- they call this a "cut" even though it clearly is NOT.  It is a 4% INCREASE in funding.

In addition, if teachers are underpaid, it is due to how the funding is allocated by States and by local school boards.  How much an individual teacher makes is not up to President Bush, no matter how much you wish it were.

I hope that your determination that teachers are underpaid is not based on a comparison with other professions.  I hope you realize that not everyone works only until 3 pm each day, and not everyone has 3 full months of vacation each year.

Since the population of school-age children has decreased dramatically since the Baby Boomers went through, any classroom overcrowding can be attributed either to LOCAL population changes, or, again, to poor allocation by local school boards.

What on God's green Earth does a kid's home-life have to do with the quality of education he/she receives?  Many kids have bad home lives.  This has been true throughout history.  It has nothing whatever to do with what education they receive.

If there is a general decline in education, it may well be due to bad parenting -- but if it is, then there's no point in bringing up funding, over-crowding, and teacher salaries, is there?

More likely, it's due to misallocation of existing funding.  Poor teaching methods. And the increase in ridiculous programs like "new math".

Whether public education is failing or not is debatable, but to suggest in one post that it IS failing, and then saying that it's NOT failing is an obvious contradiction.  And, to say that it's not failing, but has failures makes no sense whatsoever.

Lastly, you may have a front row seat; but not to the problems of public education.  What you have is a front row seat to your wife's interpretation of events which no doubt centers on bad parenting rather than bad teaching.

If your wife is as confused and uninformed as you are, I imagine that the parents are blameless.

YO!

Just to reminder here that if a school program that is controlled and administrated by the Government is slated to be switched back to the responsibility of the individual States, that is also considered to be a cut or elimination altogeather.

I tried to explain that to a lib on the ENC forum board and the subject was the school lunch program. Conservative Republicans wanted to place the control of that program into the hands of the States instead of the Federal Government and the liberals were howling. Another propagandist technique: if you cannot change the facts, change the perception.

Additionally, if I was a betting man, I'd say the moment a Democrat is elected President, the crisis concerning schools, taxes and the economy will suddenly be solved.

I could be wrong but I doubt it.

Thmiuatga wrote:Additionally, if I was a betting man, I'd say the moment a Democrat is elected President, the crisis concerning schools, taxes and the economy will suddenly be solved.

Yes, education, homelessnes and any number of other "problems" will suddenly be solved the day after a democrat steals another election.  

The "problem" of taxes will never solved as long as any American get's to keep a dollar of the money they earn.  Only when all money is redistributed by the dems and private enterprise has been eliminated will the "problem" be solved.

Pangaea wrote:

paleocon wrote:

freakonature wrote:
hahahahaha, What would the cited sources of this book be?  Are you sure you could explain the war on "terror" and Iraq?  Aren't the views of said home schooled children skewed toward their parents' views?

Thank you for proving my point!  Evidently you think it is perfectly acceptable for public school teachers to indoctrinate kids with their liberal views but object to citizens doing the same.  Classical liberal double-speak.  As a political science major I am pretty sure I can explain the war on terror and the situation in Iraq to my children.  Unlike public school teachers I usually provide several perspectives on subjects.  

My kids are home schooled and know how to cite references from the library and the internet.  I am guessing most public schooled children don't know where to find the local public library.  Of course, my 6th grade child only scored on 12 Grade + levels on her last state mandated standardized test in almost every subject area.  Clearly she is not getting the same education as her public schooled peers.

How sad.
Teaching is the most important job in the world.
They are underpaid, school funding is less and less because of budget cuts, the class rooms are over crowded, the home life of a lot of these kids is horrible  all of this is getting worse and you compare this to your home schooled kids?[/quote]

Pangaea - How sad you do not realize the cause of all these things you have stated with your holier than thou attitude regarding those comments on home schooling.  The fact is pure and simple, Pangaea, liberalism is the cause of every one of your points.  Government schools are failures.  Children are being indoctrinated into being little socialists.  They aren't being taught to be self-reliant adults.  They are being taught group think.  In my area and my area is not any different than most school districts except my taxes are probably way more than alot of them and this is not a high brow area, the schools are not just schools, they are campuses.  They have the best in sports, the best in arts, etc., but the teachers do not receive the salaries they should and the students are not being taught.  If you ask them who the Vice President is, they don't have a clue.  If you ask them to point out the United States on a globe, they do not know where we are.  Ask them to sing the Star Spangled Banner or recite the Pledge of Allegiance, forget it.  
The NEA needs to go.  The liberals need to get out of local Governments ([B]liberals need to get out of all levels of Government)

because they are the over spenders who are breaking the backs of the teachers because there is nothing they will not fund.  
[/B]


Homelife for alot of those kids has gotten worse because our country now has no morals.  Heck, do you have any idea how often kids are kicked off of school buses in this country for performing oral sex on each other in the back of the bus?  Guess who made that an accepted practice???  It wasn't a conservative.

Your bleeding heart liberalism, Pangaea, and those of your ilk are responsible for the condition of the schools, the rot happening in the inner cities, the deterioration of America's families and the degradation of patriotism in America's youth.   Your liberalism is socialism and I recognize you for what you are.  You all have been working on the takeover for many years.  If you are successful, it will be the end of the U.S.  We conservatives are not going to let you have our country without a fight.  

So, if a person is proud of the fact that his children are home-schooled and are excelling, I say I am proud of the fact that they are standing up against you and the other socialists, and I am proud of the fact that they are showing you what failures you are.

SoldiersMum wrote:Pangaea - How sad you do not realize the cause of all these things you have stated with your holier than thou attitude regarding those comments on home schooling.  The fact is pure and simple, Pangaea, liberalism is the cause of every one of your points.  

So, if a person is proud of the fact that his children are home-schooled and are excelling, I say I am proud of the fact that they are standing up against you and the other socialists, and I am proud of the fact that they are showing you what failures you are.

I don't think I could have said it better myself! Thanks for sticking up for my family.  Only in a liberal world can "choice" be the only solution in abortion but an evil word in everything else including education.

Eyas wrote:Boy, it's funny that this thread is titled "Uninformed American", and lo and behold: One shows up!

Pangaea, you suggested a search of "Bush budget cuts education", so I did just that.  It appears that you did not read one single link that came up as a result of the search, but simply relied upon the titles of the articles that came up on the search.  

I don't think we're talking about the same article. What one did you read?

I must ask you, are the Headings of a Google search what you consider to be good sources of information?

I suppose yours is better, right?
Facts are facts. Republicans cut public education.

If you had read even ONE article (or had basic common knowledge of what goes on in Washington), you would have realized that the budget cuts that you blame never came about.  These alleged "cuts" were proposed by the President, but were never passed by Congress.  Therefore, these non-existent "cuts" could not possibly be to blame for poor public education, as you suggest.

...but he tried. We know where his heart(if he has one)is. Are you trying to tell me that education never gets cut?

Furthermore, you should understand that what the media means by a budget "cut" is not actually a cut at all.  If education spending has been increasing by 5% every year, and then it is increased by only 4% in the next year -- they call this a "cut" even though it clearly is NOT.  It is a 4% INCREASE in funding.

But it's LESS than the previous year. And 5% doesn't keep up with inflation if it went up by 6%. If you do not get a raise to keep up with inflation, it's really a decrease. Your losing money.

In addition, if teachers are underpaid, it is due to how the funding is allocated by States and by local school boards.  How much an individual teacher makes is not up to President Bush, no matter how much you wish it were.

I don't like it when anybody cuts education. It's always the republicans that do it so they "can keep more of their money" Screw "for the good of the country."
In fact...you guys are like that no matter what the issue is.



I hope that your determination that teachers are underpaid is not based on a comparison with other professions.  I hope you realize that not everyone works only until 3 pm each day, and not everyone has 3 full months of vacation each year.

I'm uninformed???
My God...you know nothing about teaching.
My sister is a teacher so is my wife, her sister and so is her daughter and I know other teachers as well.
You are the one that is uninformed!
First of all, teaching is the most important job in the world.
Every single doctor, scientist, pilot, welder, carpenter or whoever, was taught by a teacher.
I base my comparison by importance.
The teachers around here are at work at 8:00 the kids go home at 2:30 after driving their teacher nuts all day but the teacher leaves at 3:30. There are always meetings to keep them longer and always, every day, correcting papers or doing report cards or getting lessons together. Their job does not stop at 3:30.
And then there open house 3 or 4 times a year that lasts into the night.
Here, teachers are given $300.00 to decorate their class rooms but in reality a good teacher spend much more out of their own pocket or they have a boring class room.
3 months off in the summer?
Its 8 weeks and the last week they are required to be at school getting their rooms ready.

Since the population of school-age children has decreased dramatically since the Baby Boomers went through, any classroom overcrowding can be attributed either to LOCAL population changes, or, again, to poor allocation by local school boards.


That's ridiculous. There's more people in this country then ever.
Population changes? Poor allocations??
How about not enough teachers or schools?



What on God's green Earth does a kid's home-life have to do with the quality of education he/she receives?  Many kids have bad home lives.  This has been true throughout history.  It has nothing whatever to do with what education they receive.

Ok, what if there's no father, the mother has a boyfriend and neither help the kid? What if there are drugs in the home?
Ever seen kids come to school in the winter with no coat and no lunch?
So home life doesn't effect school?
Any body else agree with that?

If there is a general decline in education, it may well be due to bad parenting -- but if it is, then there's no point in bringing up funding, over-crowding, and teacher salaries, is there?

There's a lot of bad parenting going on but there's still the other side...the kids that do do well.
Teachers should be well compensated for their expertise.


More likely, it's due to misallocation of existing funding.  Poor teaching methods. And the increase in ridiculous programs like "new math".

More likely? Your guessing and stacking the deck. Your going to the extreme to try and prove your point which to me discredits your argument.
What misallocation? How 'bout just funding?
Every teacher's curriculum is is set by the city and the state framework.
But I have to agree, there is some waste.
There's more money at the top and not enough at the teachers level,  too many chiefs and not enough Indians.

Whether public education is failing or not is debatable, but to suggest in one post that it IS failing, and then saying that it's NOT failing is an obvious contradiction.  And, to say that it's not failing, but has failures makes no sense whatsoever.

Has failure's but not failing makes no sense? Why not? Can you explain? Bush admits that there's been failures in his policies, does that mean he's a failure?

Lastly, you may have a front row seat; but not to the problems of public education.  What you have is a front row seat to your wife's interpretation of events which no doubt centers on bad parenting rather than bad teaching.


Say what you want, I've been watching for 20 years now. No matter what, I think I have a better view than you do.
I know plenty of teachers. I come to my conclusions by myself by what I've seen not what is fed to me. If someone is wrong...their wrong. Doesn't matter if its my wife. I'm not like that and neither is she.
You will never see things as they are because you would rather twist facts or make up junk to fit what you want to perceive to be real.

I imagine that the parents are blameless.

What?? Isn't this what I've been describing in some detail to be part of the problem??



Who's uninformed now?