I think the war on Terror is a fraud

Re: I think the war on Terror is a fraud

Postby Taylor on 02/09/08, 9:20 pm

paleocon wrote:

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FOR A SPECIAL ANNOUNCEMENT FROM OUR LEADERS STICK YOUR TONGUE INTO THE NEAREST GROUNDED ELECTRICAL OUTLET.  THE NEWS IS SHOCKING!
The problem with choosing your poison is that you are still dead no matter what when you join the tin foil hat crowd...



You aren't DD on freeconservatives are you? Umm, I've got info from a person currently in the Army in Baghdad Iraq, he says if theres oil it'd be hard to get because in the areas were in there is none lol!
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Re: I think the war on Terror is a fraud

Postby TheIndependent on 02/09/08, 9:33 pm

Palecon is a subversive troll, either a demorat or a government stooge


1992

January Gas exploration rights for Yashlar block in eastern Turkmenistan awarded to Argentine firm; Bridas Production profits to be split 50-50 between Bridas and Turkmenistan government.

1993

February  Bridas awarded Keimir Oil and Gas Block in western Turkmenistan. 75-25 split in profits, in favor of Bridas.

March  President Niyazov of Turkmenistan hires Alexander Haig (former U.S. National Security Adviser) to lobby for increased U.S. investment in Turkmenistan. and for a softening of position on pipelines through Iran.

1994

September Bridas prevented from exporting oil from Keimir Block.

November  Working group established to study gas pipeline routes. Taliban capture Kandahar.

1995

January  Keimir Block deal is renegotiated. Bridas's share of profits reduced to 65 percent. Oil exports allowed.

March   Benazir Bhutto, Prime Minister of Pakistan, and Turkmen president Niyazov conduct feasibility study of Afghan pipeline.

April Turkmenistan and Iran to build first 180 miles of proposed pipeline via Iran to Turkey. United States oppose financing pipeline through Iran. Turkmen officials in Texas at invitation of Bridas. While there, they also meet meet Unocal officials.

August  Oil and gas discovered by Bridas at Yashlar. Bridas representatives meet Taliban for first time.

October  President Niyazov signs agreement in New York with Unocal/Delta.

December  Ban on Bridas's oil exports from Keimir imposed by Turkmenistan for second time.

1996

February  Agreement between Afghan government and Bridas signed. Suit filed by Bridas in Texas against Unocal/Delta for interference in its business in Turkmenistan.

March  U.S. Ambassador to Pakistan, Tom Simmons, urges Bhutto to give exclusive rights to Unocal. Bhutto offended and demands apology.

May Turkmenisatn, Uzbekistan, Pakistan, and Afghanistan agree that Turkmenistan should name the consortium to build the pipeline. Opening of 100-mile railway route linking Turkmenistan and Iran.

August  Unocal/Delta and Turkmenistan's Turkmenrosgaz along with Russia's Gazprom enter into agreement for pipeline project.

Septmeber  Unocal says it will give aid to to Afghan warlords once they agree to form a council to supervise the project. Taliban take Kabul.

October  Unocal expresses suport for Taliban takover, saying it makes pipeline project easier. Unocal later says it was misquoted.

November Bridas signs agreement with Taliban and Gen. Dostum to build pipeline.

December  Turkey to buy Turkmen gas through Iran.

1997

January Turkmenistan signs exploration agreement with Mobil and Monument Oil. U.N. Under Secretary General Akashi criticizes oil companies and warlords for pipeline projects.

February  Taliban in Washington to seek recognition. Taliban meet with Unocal. Taliban travel to Argentina as guests of Bridas. Upon return, Taliban meet with Saudi Intelligence chief, Prince Turki al-Faysal, in Jeddah.

March Unocal sets up office in Kandahar; Bridas does likewise in Kabul.

April  Taliban announce criteria for awarding contract: The company that starts work first wins. Unocal President John Imle baffled by statement.

June  Unocal says peace is necessary for construction of pipeline, otherwise the project could take years. Bridas officials meet Taliban and say that they are "interested in beginning work in any kind of security situation."

July  Pakistan, Turkmenistan, and Unocal sign new contract extending Unocal's deadline by one year to start project by December 1998. In a policy shift, United Staes says it will not object to Turkmenisatn-Turkey pipeline through Iran.

August  Shell's Alan Parsley meets Niyazov and promises help on Turkmenistan-Turkey pipeline. Taliban say Bridas offer better terms and expect to enter into agreement with them.

September  Turkmenistan opens tenders for oil companies to take up new concessions along the Caspian. Niyazov, 57, has heart operation in Munich—concern grows about his health, and who would replace him should he die. Bridas sells 60 percent of the company's stakes in Latin America to Amoco. The two agree to form a new company to run operations jointly. Taliban delegation in Argentina to discuss pipeline deal with Bridas.

October Taliban delegation visits Ashkhbad and agrees to set up tripartite commission with Pakistan and Turkmenistan to explore Unocal pipeline project. Centgas Pipeline Ltd. formed in Ashkhabad: Unocal owns 46.5 percent, Delta Oil owns 15 percent, Turkmenistan's national gas company owns 7 percent, Itochu Oil owns 6.5 percent, Inpex owns 6.5 percent, Crescent Group owns 3.5 percent, Hyundai Engineering owns 5 percent. Taliban undecided which consortium to join.

November Taliban in United States to visit Unocal and U.S. State Department officials.

DecemberTurkmenistan and Iran inaugarate 120-mile-long gas pipeline between the two countries.

1998

January Bridas awarded US$50 million by International Court of Arbitration in Paris for money owed by Turkmen government for refined products provided to Keimir refinery.

February  Gazprom pulls out of Unocal consortium, shares re-distributed, giving Unocal 54 percent.

March Unocal says pipeline on hold as unfeasible because of Afghan war. Turkmenistan anxious for work to begin soon. Unocal asks Pakistan to extend deadline to October 1998. Deadline cannot be met, says Unocal, because of Afghan civil war.

June Objections to Afghan pipeline deal by some shareholders at Unocal's annual meeting. Unocal says it has spent US$10-15 million on the project since 1995 and intends to give US$1 million to Afghan charities in 1998.

August After U.S. missile strikes against Afghanistan, Unocal suspends pipeline project and asks American staff to leave.

September Environmentalists in California ask Attorney General to dissolve Unocal for crimes against humanity, the environment, and for its relationship with the Taliban.  

October  A Texas judge dismisses Bridas's US$15 billion suit against Unocal for preventing them developing gas fields in Turkmenistan. Judge says dispute covered by Turkmen and Afghan law, not Texas law.

November  Unocal withdraws from a US$2.9 billion pipeline project to bring natural gas from Turkmenistan to Turkey.

December  Citing low oil prices, concerns over Osama bin Laden, and pressure from women's groups, Unocal withdraws from Afghan pipeline consortium. Unocal also announces a 40 percent drop in capital spending for 1999 because of low oil prices.

1999

January  Turkmenistan's foreign minister visits Pakistan; says pipeline project still alive.

February Carlos Bulgheroni, co-chairman of Bridas, visits Turkmenistan, Kazakhstan, and Russia for talks with leaders.

March Turkmenistan's Foreign Minister Sheikh Muradov meets with Mullah Omar in Kandahar to discuss pipeline.

April  Pakistan, Turkmenistan, and Taliban sign agreement to revive pipeline project.

May Taliban delegation signs agreements with Turkmenistan to buy gas and electricity.

This timeline owes a heavy debt to Ahmed Rashid's excellent study, Taliban: Militant Islam, Oil, and Fundamentalism in Central Asia (Yale UP, 2000). Wherever possible, the information has been cross-checked against Unocal and BP Amoco Argentina's archives of press releases, Pratt's Oil Digest, Oil and Gas Magazine, Pravda, Moscow's Interfax News Agency, the ITAR-TASS news agency, the U.S. Department of Energy, and


Others have noted that it would have been unlikely for Unocal to advance its own funds for the conquest; to have done so would have been to violate US law. No such restraints inhibited Unocal's Saudi partner in its consortium, Delta-Nimir. Nimir Petroleum certainly had the assets; it was dominated by the bin-Mahfouz family which owned the National Commercial Bank patronized by the Saudi royal family. Delta-Nimir was already a major investor with Unocal in the oilfields of Azerbaijan, and may have been a factor in the October 1995 decision of Turkmenistan to sign a new pipeline contract in competition with Bridas (Griffin, 124).


Michael Griffin has pointed to a fourth source of funding for the Taliban ("at least in the early days"), the Afghan and Pakistan traders and smugglers who were being extorted by competing bands of mujahedin on their transit routes. And he adds, "parallel backing might have been furnished by heroin cartels to seize control of its supply sources" (Griffin, 152). Without naming the Pakistani ISI, by then deeply implicated in the drug traffic, he comments that the possible deflection of the drug trade north "into the hands of the Russian `Mafia',...threatened the very existence of the Pakistani economy, according to CIA accounts."


Finally a fifth source of funds for the Taliban in this period has been cited: Osama bin Laden. Newsweek on 10/13/97 reported that Osama bin Laden "gave the Taliban $3 million to buy the defections which opened the road to Kabul in September 1996" (Michael Griffin, Reaping the Whirlwind, 134).


The sources of the Taliban's funding remain unclear. But it would seem that at this time the ISI support for the Taliban would or could have drawn approval from a remarkably diverse spectrum: Saudi authorities, both public and private, the CIA, Unocal, the drug-trafficking cartels, and bin Laden. (Labeviere claims that when bin Laden returned to Afghanistan in mid-1996, before the fall of Kabul, it was on a Pakistani Hercules C130 (Labeviere, 115). He first reached Jalalabad, at that time not under Taliban control, and was introduced to the Taliban by ISI; Barnett Rubin, Asia Source, 11/1/01).

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Re: I think the war on Terror is a fraud

Postby paleocon on 02/10/08, 10:23 am

Taylor wrote:You aren't DD on freeconservatives are you? Umm, I've got info from a person currently in the Army in Baghdad Iraq, he says if theres oil it'd be hard to get because in the areas were in there is none lol!


I don't think I am anyone on any other forums.  But, I am sure many of the resident conspiracy lunatics think I am either Cheney or Soros.

I see people keep ranting about timelines and all that but seem to neglect the simple fact that if any of their conspiracies really took place, it happened way before Bush or 9/11.  

Then, of course, the ignore the fact that we have been in Afghanistan since late 2001.  However, in the intervening 7 years the simple and obvious fact is that no pipeline has ever been built.  

Conspiracy lunatics are called lunatics for precisely this reason:  they are incapable of reason and will ignore any amount of emperical evidence to pursue their fantasies.
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Re: I think the war on Terror is a fraud

Postby Taylor on 02/10/08, 12:25 pm

paleocon wrote:
Taylor wrote:You aren't DD on freeconservatives are you? Umm, I've got info from a person currently in the Army in Baghdad Iraq, he says if theres oil it'd be hard to get because in the areas were in there is none lol!


I don't think I am anyone on any other forums.  But, I am sure many of the resident conspiracy lunatics think I am either Cheney or Soros.

I see people keep ranting about timelines and all that but seem to neglect the simple fact that if any of their conspiracies really took place, it happened way before Bush or 9/11.  

Then, of course, the ignore the fact that we have been in Afghanistan since late 2001.  However, in the intervening 7 years the simple and obvious fact is that no pipeline has ever been built.  

Conspiracy lunatics are called lunatics for precisely this reason:  they are incapable of reason and will ignore any amount of emperical evidence to pursue their fantasies.



Oh, because someone name DoctorDoom on freeconservatives posted that pic just a little while ago.
Yeah, conspiracy people need to be institutionalized.
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Re: I think the war on Terror is a fraud

Postby paleocon on 02/10/08, 3:25 pm

Taylor wrote:Oh, because someone name DoctorDoom on freeconservatives posted that pic just a little while ago.
Yeah, conspiracy people need to be institutionalized.


No, that is just one of the first "tin foil hat" pix that come up when you search google for images.  

Actually, on this forum, I am a conservative, pretending to be a liberal, pretending to be a conservative.  

On other forums I am a conservative, pretending to be a liberal, pretending to be a conservative, pretending to be a liberal, pretending to be a conservative.  

On yet other forums I am a purple elephant.  

I think some of the tin foil hat wearing crowd around here are catching on though...
He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire.
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Re: I think the war on Terror is a fraud

Postby Taylor on 02/10/08, 7:13 pm

paleocon wrote:
Taylor wrote:Oh, because someone name DoctorDoom on freeconservatives posted that pic just a little while ago.
Yeah, conspiracy people need to be institutionalized.


No, that is just one of the first "tin foil hat" pix that come up when you search google for images.  

Actually, on this forum, I am a conservative, pretending to be a liberal, pretending to be a conservative.  

On other forums I am a conservative, pretending to be a liberal, pretending to be a conservative, pretending to be a liberal, pretending to be a conservative.  

On yet other forums I am a purple elephant.  

I think some of the tin foil hat wearing crowd around here are catching on though...



Okay, just lets not link to other sites. That'd be great, I don't want a buncha ron paulzi's here and 9/11 truther's I'll have to call for backup on other republican forums.
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Re: I think the war on Terror is a fraud

Postby paleocon on 02/10/08, 8:05 pm

Taylor wrote:Okay, just lets not link to other sites. That'd be great, I don't want a buncha ron paulzi's here and 9/11 truther's I'll have to call for backup on other republican forums.


Well, I don't know if we can keep them out.  Most of the Ru Paul supporters will move on to some other hopeless cause in a few months.  I am sure they will find something to keep the movement going.  We'll have lots of things to discuss too as it looks like whoever gets in to the White House won't be a conservative's best friend.
He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire.
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Re: I think the war on Terror is a fraud

Postby TheIndependent on 02/11/08, 12:38 am


Okay, just lets not link to other sites. That'd be great, I don't want a buncha ron paulzi's here and 9/11 truther's I'll have to call for backup on other republican forums.




In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happens, you can bet it was planned that way.


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"If we ever forget that we are One Nation Under God, then we will be a nation gone under"

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Re: I think the war on Terror is a fraud

Postby TheIndependent on 02/11/08, 12:48 am

If we listened to Ron Paul we wouldn't have $60 Trillion in unfunded entitlements. That's ok, your kids can be slaves to the government to support us old guys who will draw out ten times more than we put into the sytem !

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Re: I think the war on Terror is a fraud

Postby Taylor on 02/12/08, 10:16 pm

Lets move on, talking about Ron Paul is like beating a dead horse.
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