Paleocon said: I disagree with this. John McCain is at the center of the problem when it comes to the GOP abandoning conservative principles. He is by no means alone though. Dozens of Senators and Congressmen have strayed from true conservative principles. I believe that John McCain has strayed more than average. McCain can't tell them to "take a hike" because he is "them" in this case. I am afraid we are seeing McCain's inability to "make up his mind" and that that inability is largely responsible for the awful state of his campaign. He is, in large part, part of the reason that the GOP is so out of touch. He has led the effort to mess up everything they have done in the last 8 to 10 years. He is not affected by the GOP's RINO drift. He is in large part responsible for the GOP's RINO drift. This aimless, passionless, drifting candidate is the very definition of a RINO and this is the real John McCain.

He no longer has Dems to reach out to and he has no conservatives to oppose. Frankly, he now has no idea what to do. He is drifting aimlessly when he should be out staking out positions and defining himself and his opponent because he is far too much like his opponent in far too many ways to launch an attack.

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I agree with all of this.

John McCain has declared a clean campaign and he's willing to put down anyone for this goal, except his opponent. Barrack Obama claims to run a clean campaign yet he's out non-stop with either his surrogates or himself criticizing everything McCain has done or any position he has ever taken.

McCain has no backbone because the moment he strays from his clean campaign, he'll be called a racist or a nutjob with a huge temper.

McCain is not only one of the RINOs in the RNC who are running the show, he's in charge of the show. He's the standard bearer. He can't decide which direction to go because Obama is taking over his center position as Obama moves himself into a fake centrist position.

There is so much ammunition out there right now. Where is McCain? Why isn't he using opportunities that are available to him to show the country exactly what Obama stands for? Why isn't he coming out strong against his opponent instead of mealy mouthing anything and everything? It's because he is scared. He's afraid to see the headlines in the NYT "John McCain is a racist!" He has no cajones.

If Romney becomes his VP, will he try to make himself more conservative or will he try to make Romney more centrist? I think the latter.

My thought that John McCain just needs to be McCain and tell the GOP to go take a hike has nothing to do with Conservatism or Rinoism or any Ism. What does the GOP really stand for today that anyone can recognize let alone get behind and support? That was my point. I can’t tell what ism the GOP is so I can’t tell what ism McCain is. Usually, as in past elections, they are both the same. If he would just stop trying to shoehorn himself into an ism everybody could see who the man is. The people could make up their own minds as to what ism he is really closest to. Voting for what the man’s plans are for the country as President not what the Party Label has been or maybe, kind of sort-of might be today. For better or worse at least one could figure out McCain.

John McCain is not the reason for the GOP being in shambles. The GOP’s arrogance that they would forever rule the roost and their refusal to listen to what the people who voted for them were saying and do what they promised to do is what put them in the mess they are in now. They could have just as easily given McCain the cold shoulder when he strayed from the reservation and made it clear that they would not continue to tolerate it but they were so weak and afraid of showing any descent within their own ranks that they went along with it. Buy the time they realized their collective mistake, they had in effect, by the lack of showing any cohesiveness within the party, allowed what had been a main ideology to slip away. So now they attempt, with lack of anything better, to cling to McCain’s coat tails to drag their sorry butts back to power.

As far as Pro-American, yes I was speaking about national security and anti-American groups outside this country and to some extent those within this country. Radical Islam has been the main threat that he speaks about. [Gyorgy Sorosims should be on McCain’s threat list but that is just my opinion]

I already know that McCain is not a conservative in the strict definition or even close to the definition. I accept that. I don’t like it but I accept it. I then have to look at the degrees of conservatism that his policy plans may have. Most of them are not very close at all. Then I have to compare them to Obama’s.
In my opinion, in a side-by-side comparison of Obama against McCain, McCain’s look more conservative. Maybe a better way to say it would be McCain is not as liberal as Obama. McCain would not have been and was not my choice in the primary. There is a huge storm coming and I now have to help row the boat to safety or try swimming to shore on my own. I’m safer from the sharks if I stay in the boat.

Obama’s move to the center is a sham. I know it and most of you on this forum know it but a lot of voters will buy into it. Why is McCain keeping quite on these points? Is he really that scarred of the race card? I did have a fleeting though that maybe McCain does not want Obama to do too bad in the polls before August 25, hence all those super-delegates could swing back to Hillary. This was just a thought and if true, a dangerous way to play the political game.

I also agree with the idea he doesn’t know what he is either. Although I don’t necessarily think that in it self that is a bad thing. The use of labels in the Republican end of the spectrum has become so convoluted in the last 8 years except for in the extremes they really don’t mean a whole lot. I do wonder if McCain doesn’t know how to define himself and market it with regards to the GOP. Trying to do that is like trying to hit a moving target.

I have never been one to care that much how the election games get played. I do my own research on voting records and read what was actually said by whom. This time I find myself paying a lot more attention to the daily reporting. I think that is because I have never felt that if the other guy gets in, although it means there are always changes that I do not agree with and certainly some policy changes that could will have really long term effects on this country that I find disturbing, I also felt that not a tremendous amount is going to change in 4 years.
This time, what will change in 4 years is what scares me. Obama’s changes.

SoldiersMum wrote:Paleocon said:  I disagree with this.  John McCain is at the center of the problem when it comes to the GOP abandoning conservative principles.

What are Conservative "Principles" anyway ??  Do these conservative "principles" come close to anything Reagan ( your hero) did during his historic term ??

SoldiersMum wrote:
~~~~~~~~~~~
I agree with all of this.  

John McCain has declared a clean campaign and he's willing to put down anyone for this goal, except his opponent.  Barrack Obama claims to run a clean campaign yet he's out non-stop with either his surrogates or himself criticizing everything McCain has done or any all the positions he has ever taken.  

McCain has no backbone because the moment he strays from his clean campaign, he'll be called a racist or a nutjob with a huge temper.   Facts suck

McCain is not only one of the RINOs in the RNC who are running the show, he's in charge of the show.  He's the standard bearer.  He can't decide which direction to go because Obama is taking over his center position as Obama moves himself into a fake centrist position.  

There is so much ammunition out there right now. (Like flag pins and he's a muslim)
Where is McCain?  Columbia
Why isn't he using opportunities that are available to him to show the country exactly what Obama stands for? Because we all know what Obama stands for. NO MORE GOP RULE.  
Why isn't he coming out strong against his opponent instead of mealy mouthing anything and everything?  Hard to argue with the facts, reason, and logic.

It's because he is scared.  He's afraid to see the headlines in the NYT "John McCain is a racist!"  He has no cajones. thats all you got. race baiting. why does race have anything to do with it if he has a LEGIT stance on a subject?? the problem you have is that John McBush has flip Flopped more than John kerry's fake GOP created ones, just in the last 3 months.

If Romney becomes his VP, will he try to make himself more conservative or will he try to make Romney more centrist?  I think the latter.

the Yeti wrote:

SoldiersMum wrote:Paleocon said:  I disagree with this.  John McCain is at the center of the problem when it comes to the GOP abandoning conservative principles.

What are Conservative "Principles" anyway ??  Do these conservative "principles" come close to anything Reagan ( your hero) did during his historic term ??

SoldiersMum wrote:
~~~~~~~~~~~
I agree with all of this.  

John McCain has declared a clean campaign and he's willing to put down anyone for this goal, except his opponent.  Barrack Obama claims to run a clean campaign yet he's out non-stop with either his surrogates or himself criticizing everything McCain has done or any all the positions he has ever taken.  

McCain has no backbone because the moment he strays from his clean campaign, he'll be called a racist or a nutjob with a huge temper.   Facts suck

McCain is not only one of the RINOs in the RNC who are running the show, he's in charge of the show.  He's the standard bearer.  He can't decide which direction to go because Obama is taking over his center position as Obama moves himself into a fake centrist position.  

There is so much ammunition out there right now. (Like flag pins and he's a muslim)
Where is McCain?  Columbia
Why isn't he using opportunities that are available to him to show the country exactly what Obama stands for? Because we all know what Obama stands for. NO MORE GOP RULE.  
Why isn't he coming out strong against his opponent instead of mealy mouthing anything and everything?  Hard to argue with the facts, reason, and logic.

It's because he is scared.  He's afraid to see the headlines in the NYT "John McCain is a racist!"  He has no cajones. thats all you got. race baiting. why does race have anything to do with it if he has a LEGIT stance on a subject?? the problem you have is that John McBush has flip Flopped more than John kerry's fake GOP created ones, just in the last 3 months.

If Romney becomes his VP, will he try to make himself more conservative or will he try to make Romney more centrist?  I think the latter.

Geez. Yeti, I didn't say anything particularly complimentary about McCain and you still want to argue??

the Yeti wrote:

SoldiersMum wrote:Paleocon said:  I disagree with this.  John McCain is at the center of the problem when it comes to the GOP abandoning conservative principles.

What are Conservative "Principles" anyway ??  Do these conservative "principles" come close to anything Reagan ( your hero) did during his historic term ??

Well, conservative principles would include:

Interpreting and applying the constitution according to the original intent of the authors
Respecting and promoting the rule of law
Limited government
Low taxes
A strong national defense

And, in the spirit of Washington, Madison, Jefferson and Reagan, it is remembering that the people and States created the federal government and the government works for us and not the other way around.  

And if I may quote Thomas Paine:
That government is best which governs least.
Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.

We have forgotten these lessons to our peril.

paleocon wrote:Well, conservative principles would include:

Interpreting and applying the constitution according to the original intent of the authors

Like Habeas Corpus and women and blacks cant vote. Hillarious.  you are the party of crapping on the constitution. religion should be run by the government in your book. Privacy is for sissies, and a fair trial is out dated.

Respecting and promoting the rule of law

The laws that you agree with of course. not FISa or the Geneva Conventions, not innocent until proven guilty
Limited government

LOL, how much has the government grown since the TOTAL control of the government
Low taxes


For the rich and super rich and we all get a huge deficit and and economy in the crapper.
A strong national defense


that is streatched to the limit. hell we cannot even send any more troops to Afghanistan to fight the REAL war.

And, in the spirit of Washington, Madison, Jefferson and Reagan, it is remembering that the people and States created the federal government and the government works for us and not the other way around.  

Exactly,  that is why the GOP needs to go.

And if I may quote Thomas Paine:
That government is best which governs least.
Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.

We have forgotten these lessons to our peril.

I'd say

what wrote:

paleocon wrote:
Well, conservative principles would include:

Interpreting and applying the constitution according to the original intent of the authors

Like Habeas Corpus and women and blacks cant vote. Hillarious.  you are the party of crapping on the constitution. religion should be run by the government in your book. Privacy is for sissies, and a fair trial is out dated.

Respecting and promoting the rule of law

The laws that you agree with of course. not FISa or the Geneva Conventions, not innocent until proven guilty
Limited government

LOL, how much has the government grown since the TOTAL control of the government
Low taxes


For the rich and super rich and we all get a huge deficit and and economy in the crapper.
A strong national defense


that is streatched to the limit. hell we cannot even send any more troops to Afghanistan to fight the REAL war.

And, in the spirit of Washington, Madison, Jefferson and Reagan, it is remembering that the people and States created the federal government and the government works for us and not the other way around.  

Exactly,  that is why the GOP needs to go.

And if I may quote Thomas Paine:
That government is best which governs least.
Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.

We have forgotten these lessons to our peril.

I'd say

Well, you've made the normal, baseless, factually empty rants.  Of course, you sound as if you don't realize the actual facts of our nation's history show that any of the flaws in our constitution have been addressed by the legislative process over the course of time.

It doesn't matter what you write, What twists words like a professional poster for the DNC. I imagine he has a set of their talking points and Sal Alinsky's Rules for Radicals sitting next to him when he writes his canned responses. Yeti too. Of course, these words will be twisted too somehow. Afterall, What actually called Freedom, Liberty and Christianity talking points in a different post. Since he thinks those words are nothing but talking points made by us, then he doesn't understand what this country is really all about.

I continue to ask, What...are you a socialist or a communist and why? He never answers. I can't understand it. Is it possible he's one of the sheep and doesn't even realize he is one or the other? Naw..he's a pro. He knows but is refusing to acknowledge his own ideology. He's hiding it just as Obama is hiding it.

SoldiersMum wrote:
I continue to ask, What...are you a socialist or a communist and why?  He never answers.   He's hiding it just as Obama is hiding it.

  

Maybe he is NEITHER a socialist or a communist, just as you are not a Fascist.  maybe he and Obama are merely AMERICANS trying to make OUR country a better place after the 8 years of BUSH that nearly did us in (economicaly, globally, and militarily).

the Yeti wrote:

SoldiersMum wrote:
I continue to ask, What...are you a socialist or a communist and why?  He never answers.   He's hiding it just as Obama is hiding it.

  

Maybe he is NEITHER a socialist or a communist, just as you are not a Fascist.  maybe he and Obama are merely AMERICANS trying to make OUR country a better place after the 8 years of BUSH that nearly did us in (economicaly, globally, and militarily).

You mean like watching our embassies in Africa get blown up, watching the U.S.S. Cole get bombed and a car bomb being set off in the basement parking lot of the WTC and doing nothing about it?  Sending troops to Somalia and then turning tail and running?  Selling China missile guidance systems and satellite technology?  Giving up control of the Panama Canal and sitting idly by as a Chinese company sets up sites on both sides of the Canal?  Gutting our military,  cutting defense spending and closing many needed bases? Letting Bin Laden go when he was handed to us on a silver platter?  Oh wait that was Klinton, my bad.