All this anti-McCain crap reads EXACTLY like Gore withdrawing his concession: greedy, immature, unreal and with tunnel-vision.

Make no mistake, McCain's ascension leaves me underwhelmed as well. My reasons are much as yours until we get to the "not a true conservative" bs. Then I am convinced that you have consumed the same derangement-inducing koolaid as Kos and his Kooks.

The Clintons evidently do NOT have a monopoly on the politics of personal destruction. And this destructive anal-retentive whining looks no better from the right than it did and does from the left or even center-left. It does make Obama look good though. And don't think the youngsters can see past the hope shuck and jive. They can't see past friday night.

Didn't like the Goracle and his slicky lawyer attempt to steal the y2k election?
Don't like Kos and his pack of rabid extremists?
Don't like billary and their dirty tricks squad of detectives and leakers?

Then don't ape them and continue to destructively savage McCain when no alternatives remain, when no "true conservative" candidate lingers to benefit.

If "conservatives" lack the toughness to swallow compromise, even significant compromise, in order to finish the war on terror - as the opposition cannot and will not - then they lack a truly conservative understanding of the real world in general and politics in particular. Leaving them as failing their own test. And looking just as brittle as the left loony fringe.

Much as we can only fight today's war with the army we have, we can only run this election with the candidate left standing. Knocking the survivor down serves no purpose but the enemy's. A conservative takes responsibility for his own actions. A mature thinking and experienced conservative does not take destructive actions.

So are we conservatives? Or drug-addicted emotional basket cases having difficulty reconciling with reality? Think about Florida of November 1999 before you answer that one. What is it going to take? A Supreme Court Decision? And SOME PEOPLE are still whining! Are we whiners too?! No? Then the next thing to do would be to take a deep breath, think about how bad for the world 4-8 years of institutional defeatism would be and start figuring how to make that NOT happen. Probably starting with NOT dismembering our last best hope.

Conservative assimilation/domination/ascendence is not guarunteed. Overplaying cards you don't hold will make things worse. A rebound in 4 or 8 years, if it happens, could be a nice ride. If. Maybe. But it IS blatently immoral to inflict a plague on the planet just to have a chance to say "I was right, you were wrong."

pae1 wrote:All this anti-McCain crap reads EXACTLY like Gore withdrawing his concession: greedy, immature, unreal and with tunnel-vision.

Yes, you are right.  Conservatives cannot be opposed to McCain over deeply held principled convictions.  We must all be greedy and immature.  McCain's anti-Christian and anti-conservative tirades over the past 8 years cannot be the reason we oppose his campaign.  

pae1 wrote:Make no mistake, McCain's ascension leaves me underwhelmed as well. My reasons are much as yours until we get to the "not a true conservative" bs. Then I am convinced that you have consumed the same derangement-inducing koolaid as Kos and his Kooks.

Yes, that kool-aid is good and effective.  Never mind that the ACU shows that McCain is one of the least conservative senators over the past several years.  He has attacked free speech, tax cuts, free enterprise, proposed open borders and amnesty, and wants to grant constitutional rights to illegal combatants, and opposes conservative supreme court nominees and did everything in his power to prevent Bush from getting any nominations considered.    Again, it has to be the kool-aid and not the man's actions.  

pae1 wrote:Conservative assimilation/domination/ascendence is not guarunteed. Overplaying cards you don't hold will make things worse. A rebound in 4 or 8 years, if it happens, could be a nice ride. If. Maybe. But it IS blatently immoral to inflict a plague on the planet just to have a chance to say "I was right, you were wrong."

Of course conservative principles aren't guaranteed.  Of course, if you give up your principles the first time the are questioned by people like you, conservative principles are guaranteed to fail.  The simple fact is the McCain and the GOP cannot win without the enthusiastic support of the conservatives in the party.  But, they have both managed to wage such a campaign of open hostility toward Christians and conservatives that it appears we have finally reached the limit of what disrespect we are willing to endure.  

We hold enough cards and McCain and the GOP have realized this.  Now, after insulting us continually for 8 years they realize maybe they over played their hand.  It appears that McCain and company just realzed they are the ones playing without a full deck.  

McCain will lose this campaign because the Dems and the MSM will crucify McCain.  The attacks started the day Romney withdrew.  Evidently, you were too busy criticizing us to notice them.  McCain has chosen his friends:  Feingold, Kennedy, Liberman, Kerry and Clinton.  You can tell a man by the company he keeps.

I WILL NEVER VOTE FOR JOHN MCCAIN!

Pae would vote for John Edwards if he called himself a Republican. "Sure, I don't like him, but..." Let's face the facts of what that means. The GOP threw up a lousy person and is using the other side as the boogeyman.

There will always be another war to win, another Clinton to stop. The GOP banks on this. As long as the other side has a bad guy, they can blackmail us into party loyalty.

Europe fell for the same tricks too. Sure, they stopped the Communists, but they slid into socialism and are now stuck in poverty. They won those election year battles, but boy did they lose the war.

It's not about "teaching the world a lesson" or wanting to say "I told you so." We are simply voting for who we want (democracy) instead of who we're told (party loyalty). Maybe we are taking our ball and going home. But that's because we're starting to realize we've played for the wrong team.

I know this won't change how Pae feels. He will continue to call us suicide voters and whine because he can't scare us into agreement. He's the one throwing a temper tantrum - after all McCain's puffing up for getting the Republican nod, he knows he can't win without us and that makes him furious.

Democracy means nothing if we are blackmailed into voting for someone we hate.

Principle  n.  a law of nature as formulated and accepted by the mind.  An essential truth.  The acceptance of moral law and a guide to behavior.  

Character n.  the total quality of a person's behavior.

Integrity n. moral soundness.  unscrupulous honesty.



John McCain's principle is that he has no principle.  Time and again he has sided with the left and stuck his finger in the eye of conservatism all the while claiming to be one.  If anything his principle has been to do whatever he can to make sure the MSM loves him and the left includes him as one of them.

John McCain's character is that of a chameleon.  He will change his color based on the company he keeps.  He has earned the title RINO and it is doubtful he will ever be a real conservative regardless of what he says he is and what he promised CPAC he will do if President.

John McCain's integrity in not only his personal life, in how he has conducted his career in the Senate, particularly the last 8 years and in how he has conducted his campaign says to anyone who is watching that he cannot be believed, and he will not tell the truth. He will be a Hillary and do whatever and say whatever it takes to win.  Once he has won, he will continue to behave as the RINO he is.


There are only two reasons I would vote for McCain.  One is for our troops.  As the mother of a soldier, I know how the military feels about HRC and I am quite sure it will make them  and the country less safe to have either of the Dems as their Commander-in-Chief.  The other is judges.  The next President will nominate at least two if not more judges to the Supreme Court.  Either of the Dems would nominate another Ruth Bader Ginsberg and the country would have to suffer for the next twenty years with decisions effecting the nation's security and dilluting our constitution thru legislation from the bench, including the permanent authorization of partial birth abortion or even after birth abortion.

McCain's age will probably limit him to a 4-year term; in fact, he has even said as much.  We conservatives are being asked to step in line to support the Party and him.  He, himself, has not supported the Party, President Bush or Conservatives.  Since he will probably not run for a second term, where is there any impetus for him to actually be a real conservative after we have gone to bat for him and gotten him elected?  He won't.  He's a RINO and he's too old to change the very core of his being.

The problem I am having right now, what Pae1 wants us all to do, is to drink the Koolaide yet again and bend over.

I really don't think I can do that.

So, I will be working hard for conservative people who are running for Congress, not just in my state but across the nation.  I will be working to get a strong conservative Congress elected to counter either McCain when he  reverts to his RINO ways or HRC/Obama's socialism, whichever one of them is elected.  At least that's the way I feel right now and the election is a long ways off.  I sincerely doubt McCain could win anyway once the Dems get finished with him.  Afterall, he's the one who said HRC would make a good President.

candance wrote:Pae would vote for John Edwards if he called himself a Republican. "Sure, I don't like him, but..." Let's face the facts of what that means. The GOP threw up a lousy person and is using the other side as the boogeyman.

There will always be another war to win, another Clinton to stop. The GOP banks on this. As long as the other side has a bad guy, they can blackmail us into party loyalty.

The GOP has been playing this love/hate game with conservatives since 1968.  I really think a large number of conservatives have simply had it with being taken for granted.  Bush was a huge load to bear and McCain is the straw that broke the camel's back.  

Bush has expanded the federal budget by 50% in only 8 years.  He has spent money like a drunken sailor on shore leave.  McCain will be no better and frankly, he will most likely be much worse.  And he hates conservatives.  And we know it.  There is no place in a McCain-led GOP for true conservatives.

We have taken their empty promises for 40 years.  Now we have had it and we are the problem.  We are the ones who should compromise our principles one more time.  For what?  GOP instituted socialism?  No thanks.

I for one refuse to spend the next four years apologizing for McCain. When anmesty is a done deal, the dollar sinks lower and the deficit grows, explaining it away with "he wasn't Hillary" won't be good enough.

Could you imagine how the history books would judge that? McCain did X, Y and Z to destroy his party and the country at large, but his supporters explained that he was the best they could find and at least he wasn't a Democrat. How would that make the conservative movement look?

candance wrote:I for one refuse to spend the next four years apologizing for McCain. When anmesty is a done deal, the dollar sinks lower and the deficit grows, explaining it away with "he wasn't Hillary" won't be good enough.

Could you imagine how the history books would judge that? McCain did X, Y and Z to destroy his party and the country at large, but his supporters explained that he was the best they could find and at least he wasn't a Democrat. How would that make the conservative movement look?

The idiocy that Republicans can win by adopting Democrat ideas "because they poll better" is the very definition of suicide and KOS KOOL-AID but that is what the GOP is doing.  If the GOP becomes socialists and democrats to "beat" the democrats then THEY have won.  But, Pae seems to somehow ignor that obvious truth and complain that we are the problems.

I don't have time to respond to everything right now, so I'll just say this

Pae1 said "If "conservatives" lack the toughness to swallow compromise, even significant compromise"

This is the most dumb-ass thing I've ever read on ANY forum, EVER.

Compromise is a sickness of the Left and of RINOs

Compromise is an antonym of "toughness"

Compromise is a thing for pansies who lack conviction

Compromise is what has gotten us into this mess

Compromise your own principles if you wish, -- leave me to stand on mine.

Pae1 thinks compromise is when conservatives give in to "moderates."  It is always one-sided.  

Evidently one proves this resolve in Pae1's world by abandoning one's resolve and principles.  

Liberals don't want compromise.  They want victory.  "Moderates" haven't figured that out yet.  Or they don't have any real principles other than losing slowly.  Winning doesn't seem to be in their vocabulary.

Liberal Republicans jump in with Democrats to pass a liberal bill = compromise.

Conservative Dems jump in Republicans to pass a conservative bill = .... ? .... uh ... uh ... Bueller?