Illegal, Deadly, Disease-ridden Cheese

Discussion on amnesty for illegals and protecting our borders

Re: Illegal, Deadly, Disease-ridden Cheese

Postby Eyas on 06/22/08, 9:47 am

ILOVEYOU wrote:This is a huge problem in our country! These illegals are ruining not only our education but, our way of life. These terrorist companies need to fold and go away before they get shutdown, and dismantled. Which they will! We need to stop offering illegals jobs, instead offer them a free trip home this should be paid by tax payers! Problem solved!


I concur, ... I think (I'm not sure what you mean by "terrorist" companies?)

Except that it shouldn't be paid by American taxpayers.  We should present the gov't of Mexico with a bill for services so that the Mexican taxpayer can pay for it.
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Re: Illegal, Deadly, Disease-ridden Cheese

Postby paleocon on 06/22/08, 3:15 pm

ILOVEYOU wrote:
You know you should get a job teaching!!!! I need a work out partner still! This is a huge problem in our country! These illegals are ruining not only our education but, our way of life. These terrorist companies need to fold and go away before they get shutdown, and dismantled. Which they will! We need to stop offering illegals jobs, instead offer them a free trip home this should be paid by tax payers! Problem solved!


You should spend less time working out and a little more time thinking about and preparing your posts.  You made one virtually incomprehensible one to start and then followed it up with a second, even less comprehensible post.  

What are you talking about?  "imerial?"  "terrorist companies?"  You aren't making any sense.  Try to develop your argument before you hit that submit button.  Otherwise, you will get a few sharp rebukes and then get ignored by everyone.  

And for $50 an hour, I'll teach you about any subject you want to learn.  I have taught in the USA and the FSU.
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Re: Illegal, Deadly, Disease-ridden Cheese

Postby watcher on 06/22/08, 3:42 pm

Part of the problem is how well are Immigration department doesn’t work. The paperwork and the fees that are imposed on the people who want to enter this country legally are outrageous. We make it so difficult that the very system put in place to take care of this problem causes the problem. Take a look at there website sometime. Fix the bass ackwards way this is handled and you go along way toward curbing illegal entry.
My daughter-in-law is a Phillippino by birth and was living in Japan. She was working, spoke three languages and reads and writes fluent English. My son has paid out just a little over $6,000.00 in filing fees so far. This does not even count wages lost from work from all the wasted trips to the not so local immigration offices to stand in line for hours to hand in a form that has all the same information on that the last 10 forms had on it. He was in the Navy, which cut down on some of what they had to go through compared to others. She is now considered a permanent resident but to apply for citizenship it will cost them about another $5,000.00. Mexican immigration is worse.
The corruption on the other side of the Mexican border is part of the problem that needs addressing.
There is a large fraction of Mexican’s over the years that have attempted to enter legally and have paid a lot of money to so called Mexican governmental officials for paperwork only to find out they have been fleeced. So the word spreads and now they just try to cross the boarders on foot or by paying human smugglers fees to get here. We have all seen how well that works out for so many of them.
How many of them end up getting involved in drug trafficking to earn them a way in.

Securing the boarders and a having a workers identification system that allows immigrants to be able to apply to work here and have a an actual job when they get here, would also give us the ability to collect taxes on their wages as well as protecting them from employer abuses. If taxes were collected they would no longer be subjected to slave wages and employers would no longer benefit from hiring them because of cheap labor.  Now you could raid businesses that do not comply.
Then the ones who have not made petition to legally immigrate and are sponsored by a US citizen or legally work here with proper identification can be sent back.  
You want in this country follow the rules Basically no job or no support, no getting in.
Places such a Cuba would have to be handled differently.
It doesn’t’ stop the whole problem but it would certainly be a step in the right direction.
I think that this idea of comprehensive immigration reform would be all right but without it starting within our own immigration department first why bother. We send them back and they re-enter over and over again. We have rules on the books that work if we give immigration officers clear ways to enforce that authority.  
Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains taken to bring it to light
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No man's life, liberty or fortune is safe while our legislature is in session.
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Re: Illegal, Deadly, Disease-ridden Cheese

Postby paleocon on 06/22/08, 9:21 pm

watcher wrote:Part of the problem is how well are Immigration department doesn’t work. The paperwork and the fees that are imposed on the people who want to enter this country legally are outrageous. We make it so difficult that the very system put in place to take care of this problem causes the problem. Take a look at there website sometime. Fix the bass ackwards way this is handled and you go along way toward curbing illegal entry.


Well, you have to look at the costs to immigrate to other nations as well.  Our system isn't any more broken or expensive than most systems.  For example, if I wanted to get "permanent residence" in the Philippines it would have cost me $75,000.  Getting a one year visa to Russia isn't too expensive but you then have to get a work permit when you get there.  And of course, you have to have a valid invitation before you can get a visa and that can be difficult.  Other countries make it very hard for people to immigrate.  The exceptions seem to be Australia and New Zealand who seem to have a very flexible immigration policy (for Anglos, at least).

watcher wrote:My daughter-in-law is a Phillippino by birth and was living in Japan. She was working, spoke three languages and reads and writes fluent English. My son has paid out just a little over $6,000.00 in filing fees so far. This does not even count wages lost from work from all the wasted trips to the not so local immigration offices to stand in line for hours to hand in a form that has all the same information on that the last 10 forms had on it. He was in the Navy, which cut down on some of what they had to go through compared to others. She is now considered a permanent resident but to apply for citizenship it will cost them about another $5,000.00. Mexican immigration is worse.

The corruption on the other side of the Mexican border is part of the problem that needs addressing.


Technically, your daughter-in-law is a “Filipina.”  Immigration anywhere is expensive and corruption all over the world makes it worse.  At least our immigration process is simply moronic.  At least it is not corrupt and moronic like almost everywhere else.  

watcher wrote:There is a large fraction of Mexican’s over the years that have attempted to enter legally and have paid a lot of money to so called Mexican governmental officials for paperwork only to find out they have been fleeced. So the word spreads and now they just try to cross the boarders on foot or by paying human smugglers fees to get here. We have all seen how well that works out for so many of them.

How many of them end up getting involved in drug trafficking to earn them a way in.


But these people are being systematically pushed across the border by their own government who cannot and will not make it possible for them to earn a decent living in Mexico.  The flood of Mexicans illegally entering America is the result of a conscious decision by the Mexican government to export their poverty north of the Rio Grande.  

watcher wrote:Securing the boarders and a having a workers identification system that allows immigrants to be able to apply to work here and have a an actual job when they get here, would also give us the ability to collect taxes on their wages as well as protecting them from employer abuses. If taxes were collected they would no longer be subjected to slave wages and employers would no longer benefit from hiring them because of cheap labor.  Now you could raid businesses that do not comply.

Then the ones who have not made petition to legally immigrate and are sponsored by a US citizen or legally work here with proper identification can be sent back.  

You want in this country follow the rules Basically no job or no support, no getting in.

Places such a Cuba would have to be handled differently.

It doesn’t’ stop the whole problem but it would certainly be a step in the right direction.

I think that this idea of comprehensive immigration reform would be all right but without it starting within our own immigration department first why bother. We send them back and they re-enter over and over again. We have rules on the books that work if we give immigration officers clear ways to enforce that authority.  


The system can and must be rationalized.  I am all in favor of legal immigration.  Having people starve south of the border is not in our interests.  The last thing we need is Cuba exporting revolution to Mexico.  But, securing the borders and explaining to the Mexican government that they have to fix their broken and corrupt economy are the first two big steps.

Oh, and leave that stinky, illegal cheese at home....
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Re: Illegal, Deadly, Disease-ridden Cheese

Postby ILOVEYOU on 06/23/08, 12:40 am

paleocon wrote:
ILOVEYOU wrote:
You know you should get a job teaching!!!! I need a work out partner still! This is a huge problem in our country! These illegals are ruining not only our education but, our way of life. These terrorist companies need to fold and go away before they get shutdown, and dismantled. Which they will! We need to stop offering illegals jobs, instead offer them a free trip home this should be paid by tax payers! Problem solved!


You should spend less time working out and a little more time thinking about and preparing your posts.  You made one virtually incomprehensible one to start and then followed it up with a second, even less comprehensible post.  

What are you talking about?  "imerial?"  "terrorist companies?"  You aren't making any sense.  Try to develop your argument before you hit that submit button.  Otherwise, you will get a few sharp rebukes and then get ignored by everyone.  

And for $50 an hour, I'll teach you about any subject you want to learn.  I have taught in the USA and the FSU.


Tell me, what did you think I ment to say?
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Re: Illegal, Deadly, Disease-ridden Cheese

Postby watcher on 06/23/08, 2:56 am

Technically, your daughter-in-law is a “Filipina.”

Sorry, I am so used to busting on her about the Phillipino becasuse of the Ph with the Phillpines and why do they use Filipina with the Fi with that I wasn't paying attention. She usualy says something nasty back to me too.

I only used the Mexican immigration problem as an example due to the fact that can get here on foot. Cubans are a special problem. The Mexican Government (at least not that I have heard) does not shoot them or put them in jail if we send them back.

I don't have hard facts but it is my impression that a good percentage of problems with immigration in this country is the Mexican's or at least they are cited more often than any other nationality. The Mexican Government is not going to ever admit that they do not provide for their people. That is why we have to controll the borders. The National Gaurd was deployed and doing a wonderful job of keeping people from coming in. I think I read crossings were down more than 50%. That proves that it can work.

I just don't agree with the amensty plan. That is just thumbing our noses at all of the ones who obeyed the laws.
Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains taken to bring it to light
George Washington in Letter to Charles M. Thruston August 10, 1794

No man's life, liberty or fortune is safe while our legislature is in session.
Benjamin Franklin
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Re: Illegal, Deadly, Disease-ridden Cheese

Postby ILOVEYOU on 06/23/08, 4:59 am

Eyas wrote:
ILOVEYOU wrote:
This is a huge problem in our country! These illegals are ruining not only our education but, our way of life. These terrorist companies need to fold and go away before they get shutdown, and dismantled. Which they will! We need to stop offering illegals jobs, instead offer them a free trip home this should be paid by tax payers! Problem solved!


I concur, ... I think (I'm not sure what you mean by "terrorist" companies?)

Except that it shouldn't be paid by American taxpayers.  We should present the gov't of Mexico with a bill for services so that the Mexican taxpayer can pay for it.



Ok..Thats wonderful that you agree.

Companies that hire illegals and dont even think or care of hiring American citizens (including Kids,Teens, the mentally disabled,women ventrans etc of all races), are obviously terrorists Or terrorist enablers to this nation!!! I mean there is no other way to look at it.  We need to either dismantle or "nationalize" these companies. Then send the workers that dont have the right "cards" packing , when I say packing I mean provide them with the means to get back home. Of course contacting the government of the nation from which they came. Maybe using buses, air, trains etc! Protecting our ebassy aswell! Some of these "terrorist" smugglers will bring them in via kidnapp! No papers no nothing. AKA the "slave trade new"! The "slave trade new" will be crushed! Now these terrorist companies will not be tolerated any longer in this great land of America! Mexico and colombia doesnt want mexicans to be in USA illegally. Including these companies. Of course mexico has a lot of interest in these companies. They should be compensated fully for the "total loss" and sent packing! Not just partially! Other wise there will not be peace in this world we live in!
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Re: Illegal, Deadly, Disease-ridden Cheese

Postby Eyas on 06/23/08, 9:48 am

Time to add my conspiracy theory.

In order to form a Union of different States, there will be economic "equalization" between/among the States to be incorporated into the Union.  It is certainly less disruptive to form a Union between two States of roughly equal economic development and capacity than it would be to Unify two States with vastly different levels of economic development.

Also, it helps to have similar social structures, laws, culture, and language.

Think of the formation of the United States from the original colonies.  There were, at the time, significant differences between the size of the economies of the different colonies.  The creation of a unified "common market" and free trade among the colonies essentially caused wealth to "leak" from wealthier colonies like Virginia to less wealthy economies in Noorthern New England.

The same goes for the European Union.  The addition of stagnant economies like Greece drag down the average economic prosperity of the Union as a whole.

In the case of the American Colonies, the economic disparity among the different Colonies wasn't dramatic but still caused some reticence among the citizens of wealthy States like Virginia.

Also, the Colonies were united in language and, more or less, culture.  And they were united in their new freedom from England, and their need for a common, united defense.

Still, think of how difficult the early days of the American Union were.

In the case of the EU, this economic disparity was at least recognized beforehand, and steps were at least taken to try to solve this problem (regardless of their success).

In addition, in order to "join the EU, a country must meet the Copenhagen criteria, defined at the 1993 Copenhagen European Council. These require a stable democracy which respects human rights and the rule of law; a functioning market economy capable of competition within the EU; and the acceptance of the obligations of membership, including EU law."

Europe also shares many cultural similarities among states, many citizens were already multi-lingual, AND even at its greatest, and most recent, extent -- All of Europe is still 1/3 the size of the United States.  

In short, when two States are joined in a Union, wealth "leaks" from the wealthier State to the poorer State  - it's unavoidable.

Now, I suppose that a Union between the U.S. and Canada would actually be relatively painless; and, because of our cultural and economic similarities, I might not even care if it happened.

On the other hand, imagine the economic disparity that must be overcome when trying to unite the most massive economy in the world and a third-world nation.  A Poor nation.  A Socialist nation.  A nation with almost nothing in common with the U.S., culturally or legally.  A nation whose populace doesn't like us much.




This is what the Bush Administration has been attempting to do.  Without any input from the American People.


paleocon wrote:  
But these people are being systematically pushed across the border by their own government who cannot and will not make it possible for them to earn a decent living in Mexico.  The flood of Mexicans illegally entering America is the result of a conscious decision by the Mexican government to export their poverty north of the Rio Grande.  


These people are also being systematically drawn across the border by OUR government (if it can be called ours anymore) in an unjustified attempt to equalize the economies in preparation for Unification into the NAU.

The flood of Mexicans illegally entering America is also the result of a conscious decision by OUR government to import poverty their from and export our wealth to Mexico.

I see no other explanation for the Bush Administration's policy with regard to Mexico and Illegal Immigration.  
(But I would welcome one that made sense, so I could stop being a conspiracy kook.)
Public sentiment is everything. With public sentiment, nothing can fail; without it nothing can succeed.  -Abraham Lincoln


Every generation needs a new revolution. -Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Illegal, Deadly, Disease-ridden Cheese

Postby paleocon on 06/23/08, 10:47 pm

watcher wrote:Technically, your daughter-in-law is a “Filipina.”  

Sorry, I am so used to busting on her about the Phillipino becasuse of the Ph with the Phillpines and why do they use Filipina with the Fi with that I wasn't paying attention. She usualy says something nasty back to me too.



The whole "F" and "Ph" and "P" thing is confusing.  The Spanish call them "Filipinas."  The Tagalog word is actually "Pilipinas."  Pilipinos actually call each other Pinoy (male) and Pinay (female).  

Technically, there is an "F" in the Tagalog alphabet but is a recent addition.  And it was only added to help with all the Spanish and English words that have been adopted into Tagalog or Pilipino.  

It is confusing.  People there always laugh at me when I tried to say anything in Tagalog.  It was much more difficult for me to pick up than Russian.
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Re: Illegal, Deadly, Disease-ridden Cheese

Postby paleocon on 06/23/08, 10:56 pm

Eyas wrote:
paleocon wrote:  
But these people are being systematically pushed across the border by their own government who cannot and will not make it possible for them to earn a decent living in Mexico.  The flood of Mexicans illegally entering America is the result of a conscious decision by the Mexican government to export their poverty north of the Rio Grande.  


These people are also being systematically drawn across the border by OUR government (if it can be called ours anymore) in an unjustified attempt to equalize the economies in preparation for Unification into the NAU.

The flood of Mexicans illegally entering America is also the result of a conscious decision by OUR government to import poverty their from and export our wealth to Mexico.

I see no other explanation for the Bush Administration's policy with regard to Mexico and Illegal Immigration.  
(But I would welcome one that made sense, so I could stop being a conspiracy kook.)


I don't know if there is a systematic attempt to draw people to America.  I think it is the fact that there is simply so much more opportunity north of the Rio Grande and we do NOTHING to prevent them from coming.  But that is not the same as enticing them to come.  

Think of it like this.  When we were kids, if mom left the cookie jar on the table we could get to it.  It was especially easy of mom left the kitchen and wasn't watching the cookie jar.  But if mom put the cookie jar on top of the refrigerator it was much less likely to draw our attention.  

Our economy is like the cookie jar.  It is MAJOR attraction.  Mom is like the feds.  If she were watching the cookie jar (border) we would stay put.  But the minute she turned her attention elsewhere we would stream into the kitchen (cross the border) and head straight for the cookies.  

The simple fact is you don't have to do anything to attract bees to honey.  Our economy is the honey and our beekeepers (the feds) just aren't paying any attention to where the bees are going or coming from.

But, the Mexican government is pushing people to cross the border and actively aiding them in breaking our laws.  That is not the behavior of a good neighbor.  Theirs is a sin of commission and ours is one of omission.  And it didn't really start with Bush, Jr. but it certainly gained a lot of steam in the last 8 years.
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