Wonderful, alas though, we disagree about its cause.

The federal highest tax bracket is 35% and only applys to those making $357,000+ (a little under 6% of households make more than 150K a year). The highest state tax bracket is in California 10% for households making more than $1,000,000. I'd take those taxes for that income any day. For the bulk of households in the US (making between 25K and 50K per year) you'd be looking at about 25% federal taxes and about 5% state. That means that the most wealthy of us living in California would be looking at a 45% tax rate if they make over 1 million per year. That still means that they'd be making at least 550K per year after taxes. You could more than pay for a person's college education every year with that money. Now, for the avrage joe they'd be looking at about 20K income after taxes with an income of about 30K. Think about that. A person making 30K per year would have to work for 45 years to pay the taxes someone making 1 million does in one. Why not up the taxes on the rich one while lowering taxes on the poor one. Obama's plan would increase taxation on the top 5% of the income brackets which means that unless you are making more than 150K, your safe.


The flip side to this coin is that you also recieve more benefits. Imagine if all education was paid by the government. I'll have to check the numbers on this but more education means a higher income which means more taxes for the government in the future. Imagine if all the costs you incured while sick were paid by the government, no intervention, just cash. How does that infringe on one's rights. All it does is present you with a choice. If you don't want to be reimbursed, the government won't stop you from paying.

Don't get me wrong. More taxes and more social benefits are wonderful, but I love my freedom. I want to be able to walk down the streat and not have to answer the questions of anybody. I want to be able to call my friend and not have to worry if the government is listening. How does a slight increase in taxes hurt your freedom at all, espically if it helps everyone in the system.

Yes, our country is quite amazing. What we created has influenced the world in a trimendously positive manner. However, that doesn't mean we arn't flawed. There are plenty of things that can and should be changed IMHO.

Good god no. Welfare terribly flawed and archaic. However, that said, it is still a step in the right direction.

We need to help each other. That's what government at its most basic level is for.

Obama’s tax plan will put this country on a direct path to Communism.

I would suggest a trip to the library and pick up a few books to read about how wonderful the United Soviet Socialist Republic was to live in. This is how they started out. This government provided for all the people by the government taking everything the people had and making it their own. Then they gave everyone the same amount of money after changing currency. Now everyone was equal. Now everyone was the same. Everyone was given exactly the same pay no matter what they did. It didn’t matter how hard you worked so why even try. The government determined how much food you received. The government determined if you received medical care. The government determined what books you read. The government determined what music you heard, what was in the newspaper. The government determined if you lived or died. The few who controlled this wonderful government had it really really well. For everyone else they lived day to day.
They did not invent anything. Why should they! They did not learn. Why should they! What they did do was drink. Why not? No reason not to. The government’s answer to solve a food shortage was to let millions die of hunger. They started out with Socialism. Then came Communism. Socialisms next step is always Communism.
Liberalism is one- step away form Socialism. It thinks that if one does not have the government do everything for them they cannot do it for themselves. Once that process starts more and more people become dependent on the government. Now the government has to do more and more for the people. They take more taxes from one group and give it to another. Liberals always think that it is just this program we need. We have to help this one or that one. If we just had free health care or free housing or college etc. Lets add another program. The list never ends. Pretty soon you have Socialism.
Why do you go to work everyday? You work to bring home a paycheck minus a certain amount of taxes, to provide for yourself and a family. Under our current system you have the choice to accept that paycheck and tax and be content with the amount or seek out a different job with a higher paycheck and some more taxes. This enables you to provide even more for yourself and a family.
This can mean longer hours for more money, becoming better educated for the higher paycheck, this can mean taking a risk by trying something new for that higher paycheck. We give a certain amount of money to taxes to provide protection from outside forces, to build info structure etc.
The way you would like to see this country is that some people have more taxes taken out of their paycheck and given to others without them having to do anything more. The government is nothing but a moneychanger. Take from the ones who work and give it to the ones who don’t work. How long do you think it would be before you don’t bother to go the work either? Why should you? Let that someone else do the work for you and now you become one of them.
WELFARE is a Socialist plan. How well has that worked out in the last 45 years. We have more people on it now than ever. That is why you have to work 12 hours a day and never can get anywhere. You are one of the working paying for all of those who do not.
Socialism is not maintainable. Never has been and never will be.
It always turns into Communism. Communism always fails.

Based on what you think a government should be. I would suggest you try out The Republic of Cuba.

To All:

So many things.  Oh, so many things.  It's giving me a migraine.

So wrong on so many things!

How fair do I have to be?

How much effort do I have to put into this to be fair? Must I go through each individual sentence, every baseless claim, all of the gratuitious assertions?  Must I do all of the research to concretize all of statements made based on zero facts and zero evidence?  Do I have to do a cost-benefit analysis of every alternative energy and technology?  Do I have to fully explain how the free market works?  Must I go into the history of the United States Government, and all other governments throughout time?  How fundamental does the argument about what is "fair" and what is "equality" have to get?

Can anyone really be expected to give full refutation?


Let's see.....



To Exercitus:

What grade did you receive in your college Microeconomics class?

More importantly, would any refutation (no matter how comprehensive) do any good?

Would it be understood?

Would it even be read?

The USSR was created by a long and bloody civil war that killed millions of people, which was preceded by a long and bloody war that killed millions of people, which was preceded by a long and bloody monarchy that killed millions of people. It's not supprising that they wanted something that would keep the few a the top from tramling on the masses allthough it became a dictatorship worse than the Tzars that hapened to also kill millions of people.

They were hardly a culture of drinking and lazing about. They fought a world war losing millions of people. They were forced to make great leaps of technology to keep up with US advances and had an industrial base far greater than our own. They were innovative, tough and many in number.

You have a rather cinical view of human nature and seem to ignore obvious solutions. Why not impose regulation say six months of welfare free before going before a judge to review if you need it. Also, I truely feel sorry for a person who works a job that holds no joy for them. I truely do. People don't work just for their paycheck, they work for that too, but they work for other reasons. Do you really believe that a doctor works just for the cash? Do you think that a firefighter works because he likes the money? What about teachers? Police? Public defenders?


The reason a person can work a 12 hour day and still come up short is tat $6 an hour (above the minimum wage) and 6 days per week worked a person only makes 20K per year 16K after taxes (20% it would probably be more like 17-18). Now, now can a person live on that? Most rentals are close to $1000 per month and even at half that one would only have 10K per year for everything else. This person would have practically no joy in their life, just work, food, and sleep cable TV would even be a streching it.

Can you name one country that started socialist and went to a communist dictatorship? one? They all seem to go from bloody revolution to bloody government without any true socialist government in between. The only socialist governments in the world (mostly in Europe) seem to be doing far better for their citizens than we are. Think of taxes not as slave labor, if you don't want them you can allways move to Africa. Think of them as membership costs, and you get what you pay for.

Cuba is a thinly veiled dicatorship. I personaly would go for one of the northern European counries (Denmark).

I am ready to think. Where am I wrong? Where would you like evidence? I am perfectly willing to revise any statments that are factually incorrect or logically flawed. Point them out if you can. It will be read and pondered.

Exercitus,

What grade did you receive in your college microeconomics class?

I have not taken Mircoeconomics. Where are you going with this. (might I point out, you have yet to point out one logical or factual flaw in what I have said) Please, If I have so many it shouldn't be so hard to find one or two, just to help me understand where you're coming from.

This is getting off topic. Why doesn't someone open a thread about the most optimum system of government? Or maybe the optimum condition of Man?

I would just like to point out that Patton was talking about the Nazis in that quote not the "Ignorant masses" who were "stupid" enough to join the US Army and fight for their country.

I just love to look at the sick way liberals think.