I have to tough it out, I'm a conservative through and through.

I just get so frustrated I could scream about ignorant peope who take no responsibility what so ever to be informed voters. Many people in this country are dems simply because their parents were dems or their grandparents were dems. This dem party is so far removed from the dem party their parents supported it's ridiculous but they blindly keep voting for them.

I've said once before that I'm from Texas and although the majority of our state are Republicans, there are many democrats. However, with the exception of Austin which really should be a city in California, most of our dems are conservative dems who believe in gun rights, death penalty, small government and they're pro-life. Don't ask me why they continue voting democrat. They do it because they've always done it I suppose. Frustrating to see because they're actually supporting a socialist party and are oblivious to it. It's like people don't care to learn anything about the candidates.

I'm also frustrated with Republicans. I am so tired of rino's. With that said, I'm also sick of conservatives getting on their moral high horses and saying they can't or won't vote for McCain. What are their options? Right, we have none. He's our nominee chosen by the liberal media, so be it... this time around, we'll change that next time.

You have an option to stay home and vote for Obama by proxy for sitting on your butt. You can vote for an independent which will still be a vote for Obama. You can write someone in and pat yourself on the back for the next 4 or 8 years for being morally right while we move toward a socialist state. A couple of Supreme Court seats will probably come up during this next term and those conservatives who can't vote for McCain can thank themselves when far right freaking liberal socialists are appointed.

I got on that high horse briefly when McCain won the nomination, I jumped off of it rather quickly though when I was able to rationalize what the consequences would be. I would suggest other conservatives do the same and use their energy to help get McCain elected.

Missyb wrote:Frustrating to see because they're actually supporting a socialist party and are oblivious to it. It's like people don't care to learn anything about the candidates.

I'm also frustrated with Republicans. I am so tired of rino's. With that said, I'm also sick of conservatives getting on their moral high horses and saying they can't or won't vote for McCain.

You really can't have it both ways.  You can't rail against Democrats who ought to be voting for conservatives and then complain about conservatives who won't vote for liberal Republicans.  Surely you see the logical inconsistency of that position.  

I am a conservative.  I have been lied to by the GOP for decades.  We are told to support the "moderate" Republican "just one more time."  But, the "moderate" Republican gets in and does 50% or 75% of the damage a Marxist would do!  And then I still get blamed because I bought their lies and voted for him!  No more.  I know I am being lied to by McCain, Tom Davis, George Bush, et al.  If they are going to govern like liberals then they cannot expect my vote just because they are Republicans.  

Missyb wrote:You have an option to stay home and vote for Obama by proxy for sitting on your butt. You can vote for an independent which will still be a vote for Obama. You can write someone in and pat yourself on the back for the next 4 or 8 years for being morally right while we move toward a socialist state. A couple of Supreme Court seats will probably come up during this next term and those conservatives who can't vote for McCain can thank themselves when far right freaking liberal socialists are appointed.

I do have the option to vote my conscience.  I will exercise it by voting for someone who most closely represents my beliefs.  McCain and Obama move us toward Socialism.  It is a matter of degree, not the destination, with either choice.  I won't be responsible for electing McCain so he can implement socialist policies.  A slower road to serfdom still makes me a serf.  

It is better that the GOP is undone and a real conservative party emerges to lead the nation.  I am willing to help bring that about even if it costs me something in the process.  

Missyb wrote:I got on that high horse briefly when McCain won the nomination, I jumped off of it rather quickly though when I was able to rationalize what the consequences would be. I would suggest other conservatives do the same and use their energy to help get McCain elected.

The key word here is "rationalize."  Look up the word when you have a chance.  I have posted it here just in case you don't have a chance.  Look at the highlighted portion.  

In psychology and logic, rationalization is the process of constructing a logical justification for a belief, decision, action or lack thereof that was originally arrived at through a different mental process. It is a defense mechanism in which unacceptable behaviors or feelings are explained in a rational or logical manner; this avoids the true explanation of the behavior or feeling in question.

Just remember, you said it.  You "rationalized" your decision to vote for McCain.  I thought about my options and I chose to stick to my principles so I wouldn't have to vote for someone who opposes my core beliefs which are based on the clearly expressed, original intent of this nation's founding fathers.  

My horse is standing in the pasture.  I am tired of being lied to by socialists in the GOP.  I am an American and will not be ruled over by authoritarian thugs bent on destroying my freedoms whether they call themselves Democrats or Republicans.

I do understand where you're coming from. I understand it very well. I just can't stay home on election day knowing that my "no vote" will help elect Obama and I don't think conservatives should do that. I can't throw away my vote, not this time around. I don't think we can afford to do that. IF the dem nominee was a moderate dem, then yeah, I could sit out this election for my prinicples and let them have it. That's just not the case in this election. We're talking about the #1 liberal senator running for President, more liberla than Kennedy, Clinton and Pelosi for goodness sakes! This is not the former dems that we have muddled through Presidential terms with. This is a radical marxist and I don't think we can afford to sit on our priciples in this race. McCain may lack a lot of things we would like, but he is not Obama.

I agree with Missyb.
My rationalization for voting for Senator McCain is that any percentage towards Communism that is less than the percentage of Communism we get with Senator Obama is a good thing. 50% or even 75% is better than 100% any day in my book. I will also then support any local and state candidates that do the same thing.
Until the Independents and Democrats that are not the whacked out leftist finally realize where this country is heading and take a stand against it leaves me no choice but to keep shoveling. My conscious will allow nothing less.
I will concede to McCain because his starting point is closer to the centerline.

A single small voice in the woods, when used with humility and determination can be the one that leads everyone to safety.

Paleocon, I don't want you to think I'm just settling here. I am so sick of rino's I can't stand it. McCain is NOT with me on more issues than I care to count, but Obama is with me on zero. I just don't feel I have a choice. Our candidate was chosen in the media and it makes me sick to my stomach that we do not have a true conservative running. By the time Texas had our primary, McCain was already the chosen one. I went back and forth on following Rush's campaign chaos and I went to vote for Hillary. I couldn't do it. My stomach was turning in knots. In Texas if you vote for a party in the primary you are on that party's rolls for one year, doesn't mean you have to vote that way but you are labeled that way for certain.
I'll tell you one thing that needs to be changed and that is our primary election system. EVERY state needs to vote on the same day. That's the one thing that needs to change asap. The media can't control then who our candidates are with all their hype and polls and lies. I truly think that if we had one national primary election day we would have a different Republican running for office today.

I think I understand your points (Missyb and watcher).  I am NOT trying to condemn you or influence you to vote for a 3rd party or stay home.  If you can hold your nose and vote for McCain I have no problem with that.  I reached my "nose holding limit" sometime around 2004 or 2005.  Therefore, I will be voting for a 3rd party for the reasons I have discussed throughout this forum over the last 8 or 9 months.

I hope you can see why some of us who have reached different conclusions take exception to the claim we are throwing our votes away.  Frankly, were I inclined, I think I could make an effective argument that conservatives voting for an obviously liberal, fundamentally flawed candidate who has the potential to inflict significant damage to the republic could be throwing away their vote and part of their liberty.  But, I won’t make that argument.  

I do not agree that having a single, national primary day is the answer to our problems.  In fact, our problems are caused by the fact that we have compressed the primary season too much already.  Not so long ago it until the early summer to hold all the elections and that allowed time to vet all the candidates thoroughly.  

The rush to nominate this year by pushing primaries earlier and earlier and by having so many primaries "winner-take-all" helped McCain win when you factor in the crowded field.  McCain won the primaries by winning relatively small percentages of voters.  In some states he took all the delegates by winning 35% of the vote!  

If I still considered myself a Republican I would be interested in reviewing the primary process and understanding it worked and then carefully considering some changes for future primaries.  But, this accelerated process gave the GOP John McCain and it gave the Democrats Barack Obama.  Frankly, the accelerated process needs to be rethought.  It did not properly vet the candidates and it gave the GOP a candidate that many Republicans despise.  The primaries did not produce good choices for the general election!

I do understand your reason for voting for a 3rd party candidate. I do understand that and don't think I haven't thought about it too.
The reason I say we should have on National primary election is the media. They start in with their polls and then comes the hype for one candidate in each party. The sheep amongst us follow polls. A candidate wins one state and is pretty likely to then carry the next state. The sheep follow the popular vote and many times if a poll says a candidate is more popular, the sheep blindly go to the voting booth and follow suit. If a network starts idolizing a particular candidate and we all know who they idolize this time, sheep follow suit. And there you go, we have McCain and Obama.
WE need to be choosing our candidates, not them.

This site is good because it gives people a chance to vent--express their anger and resentment of political chicanery, criticise candidates, fulminate against SCOTUS and the rest of the government and generally offer their critique of all that is wrong in our country. The only problem is that it is much ado about nothing. Our voices are only heard by a few people of like mind. I wonder how many people on this site would be willing to actually participate in structuring a platform or manifesto delineating a concept of what a true great society should be like?
The manifesto would actually be farly simple since it would be based on the constitution and social laws born of centuries of human interaction. If anyone is interested in actually doing something which may help our country, they can indicate their interest here.  Restan

restan wrote:This site is good because it gives people a chance to vent--express their anger and resentment of political chicanery, criticise candidates, fulminate against SCOTUS and the rest of the government and generally offer their critique of all that is wrong in our country. The only problem is that it is much ado about nothing. Our voices are only heard by a few people of like mind. I wonder how many people on this site would be willing to actually participate in structuring a platform or manifesto delineating a concept of what a true great society should be like?
The manifesto would actually be farly simple since it would be based on the constitution and social laws born of centuries of human interaction. If anyone is interested in actually doing something which may help our country, they can indicate their interest here.  Restan

So where do we start?

jokeness wrote:So where do we start?

You mean some of you are not involved in a campaign?  That might be a good place to start.