Bush/BinLaden Still relevant

Bush/BinLaden Still relevant

Postby mr_spock on 08/16/08, 12:21 pm

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Re: Bush/BinLaden Still relevant

Postby mr_spock on 08/19/08, 12:00 pm

I find it very compelling that this has been viewed, yet not commented on. Is there anything to refute this? Or does it make you so uncomfortable that you bury your head in the sand and pretend it's not real.
Somebody? Anybody?
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Re: Bush/BinLaden Still relevant

Postby SoldiersMum on 08/19/08, 1:32 pm

Osama Bin Laden gradually abandoned the sources of identity that were his birthright, and which had heavily influenced his early life-his membership in the wealthy Bin Laden family, and his privileges as a subject of the kingdom of Saudi Arabia. He eventually declared himself at war with Saudi Arabia's royal family, and by doing so placed himself in violent opposition to his own family's interests, a posture that was apparently so fraught for him that he very rarely spoke about it in public. When he did, he blamed the Saudi royals for trying "to create a problem between me and my family." He has never denounced or openly repudiated his own family, and he has explained their occasional statements repudiating him as merely the product of heavy pressure brought to bear by the Saudi government.
After September 11, it became commonplace to trace the sources of Osama's radicalism to the Islamic political revival that swept the Middle East after 1979, and also to his experiences as a jihad fighter and organizer during the anti-Soviet Afghan war.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You continue to read the old playbook from 2004.  How about you getting to current stuff?  None of the Bushes are running for anything and neither is Cheney.  Since Bin Laden is in Pakistan, if he's breathing, we are unable to get him without causing more problems in the region.  Barry's desire to bomb Pakistan would begin yet another war and this time with a country that has nukes.  I don't find the "still relevant" YouTube you posted anything more than the conspiracy theories liberals  have been spewing since after 9/11 when you all attempted thru all kinds of ways to make 9/11 into a political issue against Bush versus a National Security Issue brought about by Clinton and the wall Jamie Gorelick built.  I imagine most people viewing this feel the same and feel that you are stuck in the middle of the Bush/Kerry campaign and should move forward to real time.

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Re: Bush/BinLaden Still relevant

Postby mr_spock on 08/19/08, 7:00 pm

It's only an old playbook to those who are in denial. I'm sure you were in denial when it all came out. Blaming Clinton is old and played. I see you have also given up on BinLaden. How easy that must be for you. "Bush and Cheney aren't running" is correct. McCain is running and wants to continue the same policies as Bush and Cheney so you need to be reminded of just where these policies came from. Obama doesn't want to bomb Pakistan, he wants to put pressure on them. Do you feel that BinLaden should get a free ride just because he made it accross the border?  Like most republican Bush followers, you use the old buzzwords "liberal" and "Clinton" and have a good laugh, feel superior, and bury your head back in the sand. It is real and it is relevant. I would much rather see BinLaden hang than a thousand Saddams. He wasn't much of a threat after all, was he. Yet we had to invade Iraq so Bush could be a big hero and take down someone with fewer places to hide. Meanwhile the Taliban and AlQueda continue to bounce back in our absence. If we are attacked again in the states, you can bet that's where it will come from, not from "insurgents" in Iraq. Watch the interview in my post "Afghanistan-The Real War on Terror". She continually tries to ask Obama if he'll bomb in Pakistan and he continually tells her that he won't, but that it's important to pressure the Pakistanis to cooperate. McCain wants to keep the ball rolling in Iraq. It started out being wrong and it's wrong to continue. I never mentioned conspiracy theories. I'm dealing with Bush's response to 9/11 which was to try to tie Saddam to it so he could invade. Turns out Saddam wasn't involved after all, was he.
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Re: Bush/BinLaden Still relevant

Postby Calypso Jones on 08/19/08, 7:24 pm

Saddam and terrorism...no lack of proof.

http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/WTARC/2003/guest_holton_2_06.html

anytime you find yourself aligned with hollywood nutcases..it may be time to re=examine your stand.
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Re: Bush/BinLaden Still relevant

Postby mr_spock on 08/20/08, 12:42 pm

Why didn't we invade Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, China, Iran, North Korea, Syria, Cuba? Not as easy or popular targets as the bad guy who threatened Dubya's dad. Venezuela has lots of oil, let's kick their asses!
http://www.state.gov/s/ct/rls/crt/2005/64337.htm
http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=3841
http://www.brookings.edu/papers/2005/0201middleeast_byman.aspx

Iran has always been a bigger threat than Iraq. Let's kick their asses!



Iran remained the most active state sponsor of terrorism. Its Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC) and Ministry of Intelligence and Security (MOIS) were directly involved in the planning and support of terrorist acts and continued to exhort a variety of groups, especially Palestinian groups with leadership cadres in Syria and Lebanese Hizballah, to use terrorism in pursuit of their goals. In addition, the IRGC was increasingly involved in supplying lethal assistance to Iraqi militant groups, which destabilizes Iraq.

Iran continues to be unwilling to bring to justice senior al-Qaida members it detained in 2003. Iran has refused to identify publicly these senior members in its custody on "security grounds." Iran has also resisted numerous calls to transfer custody of its al-Qaida detainees to their countries of origin or to third countries for interrogation and/or trial.

Iran maintained a high-profile role in encouraging anti-Israeli terrorist activity -- rhetorically, operationally, and financially. Supreme Leader Khamenei and President Ahmadi-Nejad praised Palestinian terrorist operations, and Iran provided Lebanese Hizballah and Palestinian terrorist groups -- notably HAMAS, Palestinian Islamic Jihad, the al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades, and the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine-General Command -- with extensive funding, training, and weapons.

Iran pursued a variety of policies in Iraq, some of which appeared to be inconsistent with its stated objectives regarding stability in Iraq and with the objectives of the Iraqi Transitional Government and the Multi-national Forces in Iraq. Senior Iraqi officials have publicly expressed concern over Iranian interference in Iraq, and there were reports that Iran provided funding, safe passage, and arms to insurgent elements.

State sponsors of terrorism pose a grave WMD terrorism threat. A WMD program in a state sponsor of terrorism could enable a terrorist organization to acquire a sophisticated WMD. State sponsors of terrorism and nations that fail to live up to their international obligations deserve special attention as potential facilitators of WMD terrorism. Iran presents a particular concern, given its active sponsorship of terrorism and its continued development of a nuclear program. Iran is also capable of producing biological and chemical agents or weapons. Like other state sponsors of terrorism with WMD programs, Iran could support terrorist organizations seeking to acquire WMD.
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Re: Bush/BinLaden Still relevant

Postby watcher on 08/20/08, 8:32 pm

This playbook is no longer in print. The DNC has new ones available for a small donation plus shipping and handling.

What is the fascination with Bush/Bin Laden? The Saudi family is huge. Some are sane and some are not. Osama is one of the ones who is a loony-tune. He is not interested in promoting radical extremist as a way life he is using these nuts to get revenge on what he felt was the US disrespect to him. We hurt his feelings. Some Muslims are very much living in the 21st century and some are not. Some, not all know what side their bread is buttered on.  Without the US they would not have anything but a bunch of sand to sell. They sat on land with oil but could not get it out of the ground. [Enter Halliburton. That is one of the things that this company does, get oil out of the ground.] Do you really thing that Radical Islamic extremism will just go away if he is found.  Would it be great to see his head on a platter? Sure, but it is not the end all to terrorism.  To kill as many of these nut jobs in Iraq and Afghanistan is a good thing and means that many less over here.  Let Iran keep sending their nuts into Iraq. Fewer nuts in Iran will help the people of Iran in the long run. Eventually there will be less and less of them.  
The bigger the light that shines on the Muslim religion the more people have to pay attention to what makes some people choose the radical parts of this faith and middle eastern barbarism over the more peace loving version of this faith.
Two things will happen.
The Muslims who believe in peace and want to live in a world without terrorism will join in an start to take an active part in eliminating these radicals; by hunting them down and routing out the clerics who promote radicalism and replacing them with teachers who do not.
The Muslim faith will wither and die out and the few who cling to the barbarism will become isolated and non effectual.
What we cannot do is attempt to appease these nuts. That goes for President Tom from Iran. We cannot be tempted to give in. Would it be easier in the short term? Yes. Will it stop the nuts? Absolutely not. It will be taken as a sign of weakness. It will give them a reason to keep going. It will make them think that they can do whatever they want.
Is this going to happen next week, next month or next year? No, this is going to be years.
This is going to be a long, long, war. We may not always be actively using the military to fight this but this ‘war’ will be fought for years to come in many different ways.
This is Multi-generational war. You cannot take something that dates from the 700 AD and turn it around in a couple of years.

As far as going after other countries with oil you answered your own question.  Those other countries have not made serious attempts to harm us, yet.  North Korea tried to threaten us and got smacked down. Iran is trying to go nuclear and if they keep it up despite sanctions we will if Israel doesn’t get them first. If we were only interested in Oil we could take Mexico with one hand tied behind out backs. ITS NOT OIL. If it were then we would be swimming it.  Is oil important to the world?  Very much so.  Why do you think Mother Russia is pulling this crap in Georgia? Oil is Russia’s newfound wealth. Now there is a country that invades another just for oil.
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George Washington in Letter to Charles M. Thruston August 10, 1794

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