GOPER wrote:And i dont think this whole post was nessessary. Barack Hussein Obama is a very harsh, mean way to describe him, and our Nominee, John McCain, rejects the idea that he and Bill Ayers are close


Are you that out of touch that you do not understand what and who you are dealing with here?  Let's all be nice.  Let's all be fair. Naw.  Let's be real.   Obama is a marxist.  The entire Dem Party is being run by socialists and marxists, and you simply are going to just stand around with your fingers up your butts and not counter what is happening.  I do not give a flying fig whether McCain rejects the idea of describing him as he is or not.  Anyone who is a true American, who loves freedom and liberty, who believes in capitalism, who will stand for the Shining City on the Hill, will not stand down and let these marxists take over our country without so much as a whimper.  Obama and Ayers have a 20-year relationship.  Obama started his political career in the home of William Ayers.  McCain is wrong, as he is on so many issues too numerous to list.  You "moderate conservatives" have allowed these marxists to berate our President, the Administration, the Republican Party and Conservatives for the last 7+ years without so much as a whimper.  No one has any gutts. Everyone has to stay on the high road.  Look what you have done to the Republican Party, to the country and to freedom and look what you are doing by not countering these marxists.  You are taking the country into the toilet and you still want us to play nice while we are being flushed.  Forget that.  Some of us will fight for this country.  Some of us will stand up for this country.  Some of us will say it like it is and to hell with you.

We should be P.C and respectful. Werent you the one who wanted McCain to be more P.C about his wife?

What I was talking about regarding McCain and his wife has nothing to do with PC.  What I am talking about with his wife is for him to be a real man.  He never talks to her.  He never touches her.  He never opens a door for her.  He never pulls out a chair for her.  He walks 5 to 15 paces in front of her and never even glances back to see if she is still with him and if she is ok.  Excuse me, but this is a matter of character and the matter of him being a real man.  It shows very clearly his total dislike of women and his narcisism.  Everything is about him.  He lives in the world of "me."  His wife is a beautiful lady.  He totally ignores her.  There is nothing PC about this whatsoever.  

GOPER wrote:And i dont think this whole post was nessessary. Barack Hussein Obama is a very harsh, mean way to describe him, and our Nominee, John McCain, rejects the idea that he and Bill Ayers are close

We should be P.C and respectful. Werent you the one who wanted McCain to be more P.C about his wife?

There, in a nutshell, is your problem.  You don't get to decide what we think is "necessary."  It is called freedom of speech and it is protected by the constitution.     

How in the world is calling Barack Hussein Obama "a very harsh, mean way to describe him?"  It is his name!  This is beyond lunacy!  

If John McCain also rejects the idea that he and Bill Ayers are close then John McCain is once again demonstrating how out of touch with reality he is!  Barack Hussein Obama courted Bill Ayers when he was deciding to run for public office!  It is a matter of public record.  (http://dianej.wordpress.com/2008/04/15/ ... tor-obama/).  Denying the obvioius truth does not help McCain.  It makes him look out of touch and dishonest.

Its not a matter of political correctness.

Stating that because a person has a connection with the religion of Islam makes them less qualified to be President is, in fact, de facto bigotry and ought to be recognized as such. Simple as that.

Treeofliberty wrote:Its not a matter of political correctness.

Stating that because a person has a connection with the religion of Islam makes them less qualified to be President is, in fact, de facto bigotry and ought to be recognized as such. Simple as that.

You criticize an argument that has not been made here.  "Barack Hussein Obama II" does have a connection to the religion of Islam.   But, I don't think anyone is stating that this is what makes him less qualified to be President.  I htink most here believe that he is categorically unqualified to serve as President but not because his father and step-father were both Muslims.  

It is a fact that his Muslim connection could work toward his benefit and detriment at the same time in different circumstances and between different groups.  If Muslims view him as an apostate Muslim then Sharia demands his death.  That would be detrimental to Barack.  

If a significant percentage of Muslims came to believe Barack were an apostate Muslim and thus set out to implement the "prophet's" mandated punishment for this violation of Islamic law this would be detrimental to both Barack and the United States.  Therefore, it is conceivable that his Muslim heritage could impact him and the USA negatively.  To note this possibility is not bigotry.  

I reject the idea that stating his middle name means that people are saying that his Islamic heritage makes him less qualified to be President.  If that is the case then calling him by his first name would therefore be equally unacceptable since it is the Arabic form of "Baruch” which means "Blessed" in Hebrew.  

You really need to think this through before you resort to resorting to call people bigots.

I wasn't making the assertion that stating Obama's middle name was bigotry.

Nor was I saying that everyone who mentioned his Muslim history was a bigot.

However, the image that was posted earlier on this thread - and fairly denounced by many posters - was an example of bigotry. Its purpose was to illustrate it that would be foolish to vote for someone who dressed like a Muslim rather than a WASP. That is, without a doubt, bigotry.

I think you can also make the argument that calling him "Barak HUSSEIN Obama" (putting significant emphasis on the middle name) is pretty much borderline bigotry as well. Rest assured, however. I was calling no individual a bigot.

Treeofliberty wrote:I wasn't making the assertion that stating Obama's middle name was bigotry.

Nor was I saying that everyone who mentioned his Muslim history was a bigot.

Treeofliberty wrote:However, the image that was posted earlier on this thread - and fairly denounced by many posters - was an example of bigotry. Its purpose was to illustrate it that would be foolish to vote for someone who dressed like a Muslim rather than a WASP. That is, without a doubt, bigotry.

There you go again.  The picture of Obama was when he went to Kenya and dressed in native Kenyan dress.  I don't think the outfit he wore is specific to Muslims.  You seem to be jumping to a lot of conclusions.  

Furthermore, the picture of McCain is not a WASP costume but rather the uniform of a Naval Aviator worn by proud Americans of all ethnicities and religions.  

Does all your exercise come from jumping to conclusions, stretching the truth, bending over backward, and sidestepping responsibility?  

Treeofliberty wrote:I think you can also make the argument that calling him "Barak HUSSEIN Obama" (putting significant emphasis on the middle name) is pretty much borderline bigotry as well. Rest assured, however. I was calling no individual a bigot.

No, I reject that argument.  I might have many reasons to put the emphasis on a given word or syllable at different times and it is not for you to determine my motives for doing so.  You don't get to decide what is in my heart and mind when I say a word that makes you think certain things.  You are responsible for the associations you make in your mind.  You are not the thought police.

paleocon wrote:

Treeofliberty wrote:I wasn't making the assertion that stating Obama's middle name was bigotry.

Nor was I saying that everyone who mentioned his Muslim history was a bigot.

Treeofliberty wrote:However, the image that was posted earlier on this thread - and fairly denounced by many posters - was an example of bigotry. Its purpose was to illustrate it that would be foolish to vote for someone who dressed like a Muslim rather than a WASP. That is, without a doubt, bigotry.

There you go again.  The picture of Obama was when he went to Kenya and dressed in native Kenyan dress.  I don't think the outfit he wore is specific to Muslims.  You seem to be jumping to a lot of conclusions.  

Furthermore, the picture of McCain is not a WASP costume but rather the uniform of a Naval Aviator worn by proud Americans of all ethnicities and religions.  

Does all your exercise come from jumping to conclusions, stretching the truth, bending over backward, and sidestepping responsibility?  

Treeofliberty wrote:I think you can also make the argument that calling him "Barak HUSSEIN Obama" (putting significant emphasis on the middle name) is pretty much borderline bigotry as well. Rest assured, however. I was calling no individual a bigot.

No, I reject that argument.  I might have many reasons to put the emphasis on a given word or syllable at different times and it is not for you to determine my motives for doing so.  You don't get to decide what is in my heart and mind when I say a word that makes you think certain things.  You are responsible for the associations you make in your mind.  You are not the thought police.

It appears as though I may have been mistaken as to the origin of the garb in the picture. My apologies.

But ok, Paleocon, let's dance

So you tell me, what is the legitimate message of that picture? Is it your assertion that you don't see a connection between the pictures of the candidates and the question of "is your head up your ass?" Because then, fine. They are just arbitrary pictures of the candidates chosen at random. Though, all logic and reason sort of stands in the face of that assertion. Considering it was put together with a political purpose, the pictures are very likely a portion of the message. So what is is about voting for an Obama that looks like a Muslim/Kenyan/Non-Wasp over a young looking white male in a naval uniform that would make comicracy, or a similar person, believe that the voter had their head up their ass? Now, if the answer you're about to pull up is "because McCain is clearly acting as a defender of our freedoms" then Ok, there's you're legitimate purpose. Except... why juxtapose that picture with the photograph of Obama looking so non-waspy? I've seen him plenty of times - on television, in the papers, on websites.  It appears to me - though I could just be "jumping to conclusions, stretching the truth, bending over backward, and sidestepping responsibility" again (cute btw) - that his usual garb is not depicted in that photograph? Why highlight the "foriegness"? Can you come up with a legitimate reason?

And reject the argument until you are blue in the face. But first, please tell me why you might have a legitimate reason to write Barack HUISSEIN Obama? Perhaps you're writing a sonnet and are stretching for some really good iambic pentameter. Or I suppose if someone posted something like "Barack Henry Patrick Martin Lucas Obama went to Montana yesterday" and you were trying to be smooth about correcting his mistake without calling him out. Or maybe your capslock key is xenophobic. Really paleocon, what IS that legitimate reason you have for emphasising a distincly non-waspy middle name?

Again, not calling you a bigot. But some things really just are de facto bigotry.

"Caps Lock is xenophobic" - priceless!

I hardly know where to start.  But, I’ll start with the first thing you said in the previous post and the last thing you said in this post and point out that you deny you are doing what you are actually doing.  

Treeofliberty wrote:I wasn't making the assertion that stating Obama's middle name was bigotry.

Nor was I saying that everyone who mentioned his Muslim history was a bigot.

Treeofliberty wrote:Again, not calling you a bigot. But some things really just are de facto bigotry.

In fact, you directly state the thing that you said you weren’t saying in your earlier quote.

I cannot assign motives to my caps lock key.  Frankly, I don’t use it much to begin with.  And I am not emphasizing his name.  

I didn’t make the original post and I don’t know who crafted the image that you find inherently bigoted.  

It is inherently no more bigoted to say Franklin Delano Roosevelt or Ronald Wilson Reagan or George Herbert Walker Bush or Hillary Rodham Clinton than it is to say Barack Hussein Obama.  

That you can only see racism and bigotry in the use of an Arabic name or a picture of a man in “non-waspy” attire says much more about you than the person who created the image you complain about.  Tell me what is “waspy” attire?  I am ever so keen to know.  And what is Obama’s “normal attire?”  I admit I have not paid as much attention to the sartorial aspects of the campaign as have you.

paleocon wrote:I hardly know where to start.  But, I’ll start with the first thing you said in the previous post and the last thing you said in this post and point out that you deny you are doing what you are actually doing.  

Treeofliberty wrote:I wasn't making the assertion that stating Obama's middle name was bigotry.

Nor was I saying that everyone who mentioned his Muslim history was a bigot.

Treeofliberty wrote:Again, not calling you a bigot. But some things really just are de facto bigotry.

In fact, you directly state the thing that you said you weren’t saying in your earlier quote.

I cannot assign motives to my caps lock key.  Frankly, I don’t use it much to begin with.  And I am not emphasizing his name.  

I didn’t make the original post and I don’t know who crafted the image that you find inherently bigoted.  

It is inherently no more bigoted to say Franklin Delano Roosevelt or Ronald Wilson Reagan or George Herbert Walker Bush or Hillary Rodham Clinton than it is to say Barack Hussein Obama.  

That you can only see racism and bigotry in the use of an Arabic name or a picture of a man in “non-waspy” attire says much more about you than the person who created the image you complain about.  Tell me what is “waspy” attire?  I am ever so keen to know.  And what is Obama’s “normal attire?”  I admit I have not paid as much attention to the sartorial aspects of the campaign as have you.

I never said simply stating the man's middle name was inherently bigoted. I've no objection with that.

However, the emphasis in Barack HUSSEIN Obama, seems to serve no purpose that is not xenophobic. The Arabic name does not fit the mold of our previous 43 presidents. The emphasis appears to be a highlight of that difference. That difference is based on ethnic and religious background. Basing qualifications for the presidency on ethnic or religious backgrounds is, ta da! Bigotry. Again, if you can show me a purpose for such emphasis, I'd be glad to reconsider.

Also, I didn't make the assertion that you, paleocon, emphasized his middle name. I made the assertion that the emphasis appeared to be bigotry, you told me that you "might have many reasons to put the emphasis on a given word orsyllable at different times and it is not for [me] to determine [your] motives for doing so," I asked what legitimate purpose you might have in doing so, and you told me that you didnt. Fair enough. I never assumed you were a bigot, or made bigoted remarks.

And I defy you to tell me a non-racist/bigoted interpretation of the aforementioned political picture. It does not say that I am a racist because I see racism in racism. Thats goofy.

And finally, you said it would be no more inherently bigoted to say Franklin DELANO Roosevelt, or George WALKER Bush. That's kind of the point. There's nothing to emphasize about those names.

Though, come to think of it, it might be kind of bigoted to say Franklin WALKER Roosevelt. Haha, ouch, too soon?