a heart wrenching decision you say?   What was the reason for the heart wrenching decision?   I don't condemn you dear.   I am assuming you are young.  and i have deep sympathy for you.   And i can now understand your vehement defense of it.  But that will pass.   And you will understand.

Let me re-iterate my main point that got lost in all this. The hypocrisy of the pro-life/republican mindset.


The adament "Pro-Lifers" would force them to have those babies anyway. Then deny them the "Socialist" services to help them be taken care of, from pre-natal care to post-natal care to any 'Socialist" medical or food program that would help. So you demand that the baby be born, yet care less for the quality of life of that person. Then whine about the increased load on the welfare system.

Somebody? Anybody?

where do you get this stuff?   Where please tell me are pro-lifers forcing women to carry to term unwanted babies!   Women who make the choice themselves to carry their children to term and beyond DO get government assistance...and state...AND local.     There is NO end to the services available to them.  

Is it so painful for you to face the fact that abortions are the killing of little persons??  Sweet little tiny little helpless things?  KILLING forever the little hands that hold onto your finger.  Trusting you, loving you, looking up to you for protection?

mr_spock wrote:Let me re-iterate my main point that got lost in all this. The hypocrisy of the pro-life/republican mindset.


The adament "Pro-Lifers" would force them to have those babies anyway. Then deny them the "Socialist" services to help them be taken care of, from pre-natal care to post-natal care to any 'Socialist" medical or food program that would help. So you demand that the baby be born, yet care less for the quality of life of that person. Then whine about the increased load on the welfare system.

Somebody? Anybody?

Just exactly where do you come up with Pro-Lifers don't care about the care and well-being of babies?  Oh, yeah, I forgot.  That's a DNC talking point just like Republicans are all racists.  

You just don't get it.  We want people to be responsible for their actions whether that is a baby or whatever.  The Democrats' mantra is more, more, more handouts.  We are not adverse to helping people who really need the help but we do not think that the massive giveaways really are helping people.  It's like the old proverb:  "Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime. "   When people get freebies, they have no incentive to actually be responsible.  That is the problem with socialism.  It doesn't work because people have no incentive to try to make their own way.  Today we have 4th and 5th generation mothers on Aid to Dependent Children and welfare.  Why do you not understand that that is not ok..that the welfare system is not helping people but hurting them?  Where are their husbands?  70% of black children do not have a mother married to their father because in large part, they cannot get their money if they are married.  What is wrong with that picture?  The socialist programs are broken.  They need to be fixed to give people the real help they need and to stop the giveaway that is destroying predominantly the black family.  

We would like everyone to experience the American dream.  To do that, you have to work hard for what you want.  If you are getting it for free, why bother?  
Did you work for what you have?  Have you reached some of your goals and felt good about it or are you waiting for the Government to take care of everyone from cradle to grave?  

Don't say pro-lifers do not care about babies that escape the abortion route.  It is just not true.

If abortion is outlawed by the supreme court, that essentially forces women to have unwanted babies. I agree entirely with people working for what they get. Did you read the stats on page 2 of this stream? 3/4 of women said they had abortions because they couldn't afford a child. "Socialism" is a buzzword used quite a bit here in a negative fashion. If you're going to force women to have unwanted babies then you're going to have to spend more on those "socialist" programs. You can't have it both ways.
Mum, perhaps it's not fair of me to lump you in with the "right wing, neocon, christian fundamentalist" group in the same way I'm not a "liberal, socialist, reverse-racist who believes in handouts to deadbeats and illegal aliens".
It's funny how you put the "republicans are all racists" words in my mouth. I continually read here that "democrats are all reverse-racists".
Labels and assumptions bring us all down, but that's fodder for a different post.

It's funny how you put the "republicans are all racists" words in my mouth. I continually read here that "democrats are all reverse-racists".


No. No. No.  I was not putting those words in your mouth.  Do not be so ready to look for the namecalling, especially from me.  I try really hard to not throw the labels, although I do talk about socialism and communism and I do refer to Obama as a socialist because that is what he is.   I said that was a DNC thing.  Look..even Howie Dean said "the White Party..uh..excuse me, I meant the Republican Party," and they are constantly calling  Republicans racists.  It was meant as another inaccurate statement by the DNC.   I was merely saying that the DNC declares the Republicans to be hard-hearted people because they do not support "The Children," and that's probably where you got the idea that pro-lifers don't support the children because we are against socialism.

Personally, I get really weary of the fighting on here.  I'm trying to get people to behave themselves and to stick to issues, but I cannot control every single person and I cannot delete every single post and ban everyone who gets their knickers in a twist.  It does seem that a few of your compatriots on here want to have a fight and unfortunately, it seems that a few on here are willing to give it to them.  It doesn't make for good debate.

mr_spock wrote:If abortion is outlawed by the supreme court, that essentially forces women to have unwanted babies. I agree entirely with people working for what they get. Did you read the stats on page 2 of this stream? 3/4 of women said they had abortions because they couldn't afford a child. "Socialism" is a buzzword used quite a bit here in a negative fashion. If you're going to force women to have unwanted babies then you're going to have to spend more on those "socialist" programs. You can't have it both ways.
Mum, perhaps it's not fair of me to lump you in with the "right wing, neocon, christian fundamentalist" group in the same way I'm not a "liberal, socialist, reverse-racist who believes in handouts to deadbeats and illegal aliens".
It's funny how you put the "republicans are all racists" words in my mouth. I continually read here that "democrats are all reverse-racists".
Labels and assumptions bring us all down, but that's fodder for a different post.

I'm wondering about the phrase 'couldn't afford a child'.   That doesn't necessarily mean that they didn't have the money for it.   It means that they couldn't afford a child because of their time or the social stigma or the inconvenience of it.   There are MANY families in this country that would dearly love to have a child.  They would even pay for it.   It appears that leftists would prefer the infant dead to being raised by another family because it helps with their philosophy of death.  

spock,  you seem to want to be taken as serious and thoughtful and a proponent of what is right..i'm going by your last few sentences above...so how on God's green earth can you support such lies.   Let me point you to the number of leftist women activists and their 'ahabs' who brag about their own abortions and continue to push it on the rest of us as no worse than having your tonsils removed.

We can debate in circles forever about the true motivations for abortions. As you've picked up on, Calypso and Mum, I don't like it. I don't think a very large % of women that have them like it. They must have that option though, and it has to be legal for any woman to choose, however distasteful or sinful it might be to anyone else. Years ago I had a button that was a coat hanger in a red circle with the slash. If Roe vs. Wade is ever overturned, that's exactly what you'll have. You'll never stop it from happening any more than prohibition stopped people from drinking. It'll literally be driven underground and to back alleys in unhealthy and unsanitary conditions. Distraught and afraid teenagers will resort to desperate measures to destroy the fetus however they can. Other women will try innumerable "home" remedies. Crackpot "doctors" will cash in and (I'm assuming here) more often than not, do more harm than good. Not that having an abortion is good, but having it in as clean and safe an environment as possible is a "good" thing. How many later term abortions will there be because it took the mother that much longer to find a way to get it done? Look at the passion exhibited in this video clip. It's something you're going to have to swallow hard and compromise on. That's one of the most important reasons to NOT vote for McCain. He's a moral grandstander who very conveniently changed his position to court your part of the electorate.

Thank heaven Barry Obama has consistently voted for the destruction of the unborn...except for that one little time last week when he said it was a misunderstanding.    

You are so convinced of the danger of these small ones and that they must be destroyed before they see the light of day.  Do you thnk they are armed?

Someone on here said that if they got banned from here they would join a website like www.republicansdupedintovotingagainsttheirownbestinterests.    I would love to know how republicans vote against their own best interests.   Is baby killing in our best interests?  Is euthanasia in our best interest?   Is being taxed over half our paycheck in our best interest?   Is foisting a pseudo science called global warming onto us and taxing us for it in our best interest?

Mr_Spock, I think that YouTube was disgraceful.  It's a pure example of how there is no discussion about anything when certain people decided to scream and holler and shout down opinions they don't agree with.  

Now, regarding what you have written about hanger abortions.  When Roe vs Wade was first decided by the SCOTUS, I was young and I was willing to say ok because of hanger abortions, rapes, incest, disease, birth defects and the lot.  My strong problem with abortion is that it has ceased to be what it originally was.  Originally, it was for pregnancies in the first term of gestation.  During that time the fetus is anywhere from the size of this dot " . " to the size of a grain of rice.  What happened was the liberal push for more and more.  What happened was second term and then third where suction no longer works and the fetus is brought down the birth canal, stabbed in the head, has its brains sucked out and is killed. ..some of them in the 9th month of gestation.  Most would have survived had they been able to take their first breath except:   What also happened was babies surviving late term abortions were being left to die in trash cans.  Why did that happen Mr_Spock?  A woman knows if she's been raped.  She knows if her grandfather is the father of her child.  The embryotic fluid can be checked for disease or birth defects early on.  Why did that happen?  

It happened because of liberal judges legislating from the bench when we were not noticing.  It happened and it makes me sick to my stomach. In my mind, it is the greatest moral failing of our country.  If we have to have abortion, it should be taken back to first term and stay there and it should not be used as a form of birth control.  Unless there is some definite health risk for the mother (and that is extremely rare)  late term abortions should not ever be occuring.  

In today's world, the survival rates of 5-6 month babies has risen greatly.  So, any abortions carried out when a fetus could survive is infanticide in my mind.