Abortion

JackltUp · by **JackltUp** on 08/21/08, 10:13 pm

Calypso Jones wrote:
JackltUp wrote:Calypso, pray tell, might thouest be a man? I ask only because of the massive ignorance displayed in your posts. I would bet my crappy stimulus check that you are. Women have abortions because a child would be inconvenient? Well, I can tell you, from personal experience, that I have never been in more pain in my entire life. No, dear sweet Calypso, all comfy in the saddle of your very high horse, women who think a child would be "inconvenient" avail themselves of birth control. That is, if it's available to them. The "family-values" zealots have moved heaven and earth to make sure they don't, of course. Why? I guess it must be because women are all sluts and don't have any business bumping uglies if it's not at their husband's behest for the purpose of making babies.

See how reasonable I can be? I didn't use the "d" word even once. Not that I didn't want to.

i love that answer.

It WAS fabulous, wasn't it? And I'm not even an arugula- eating elitist. I just have a dictionary.

Calypso Jones · by **Calypso Jones** on 08/21/08, 10:16 pm

I don't think the dictionary is much help for you.

JackltUp · by **JackltUp** on 08/21/08, 10:19 pm

Calypso Jones wrote:I don't think the dictionary is much help for you.

Brilliantly scathing. Is that all you got? Care to address any of the substantive points I made?

JackltUp · by **JackltUp** on 08/21/08, 10:20 pm

I'll wait while you look up "scathing".

Calypso Jones · by **Calypso Jones** on 08/21/08, 10:27 pm

how many times have you been on here with a new name? Inconvenience is a big reason for abortions. I'm sorry. I didn't make it up. It would be nice if these women did use birth control rather than abortions and the RU486 pill. If these women wish to convenience themselves by these extreme methods i can do nothing about it. But i don't see why I HAVE to provide them with the means. If they want it that badly they can pay for it themselves. Same as they would the birth control methods that you say they should be provided. WHY should I provide them with the means of having an abortion after they have consented to sex!!?? And did you admit to having an abortion in one of your posts??

substantive!! that's one you oughta look up.

JackltUp · by **JackltUp** on 08/21/08, 10:51 pm

Again, Calypso, you are crazily all over the map.  I will attempt to address your points, though, I fear, I'm not bi-polar enough to be up to the task.

1)  I've only been on here once with a new name.  As soon as I'm banned again, I think I'll find a new, more open-minded forum, like "right_wingers_who_hate_everyone_and_get_duped_into_voting_against_their_own_interests.com"

2)  You avow that women all have access to birth control yet you have no facts to back that up.  Okay.  Pardon me for not allowing you any credibility.  I avow that martians staged the moon landing.  Empty fact-less testaments aren't really debate-worthy.

3)  Why should you provide women with the means to prevent unwanted pregnancies?  Well, I guess that would be because of your exalted zygotes.  That would be one reaon why.  Is that reason good enough for you? Mmmmm, probly not.  Beat it into 'em, as you intimated.

4) ADMIT to HAVING AN ABORTION.  It hasn't come up actually, but it appears that I did or you wouldn't be trying to call me out on it.  I also mentioned how incredibly painful it was.  :::::: fundie's opening to denigrate a woman who made a heart wrenching decison::::

Now, please, for the sake of the audience, look up "substantive" rather than parroting it inappropriately.

Go look up the big words.  I'm going to bed.

Mr Jones · by **Mr Jones** on 08/21/08, 11:01 pm

Wow this topic is just too ~~crazy~~ highbrow for me. Well, I really wanted to talk to you, whoever you are, but I am too ~~sane~~ stupid to grasp the ~~insanity~~ greatness of your posts.

I never knew that murdering children made you a "sentient" human being. Next time illl know well enough to change my positions on inconvenient parts of partial birth abortion between posts. I never knew how "intellectual" that move was in a debate. I always thought that was wrong, but I guess I just need to be more open minded.

Hey, I am realizing so many things I never knew! Maybe I was just too close minded to see that there were 57 states in the union, or that inflating my tires will solve The Global Warming.

Thank you for the enlightenment. I will now "abort" a 2 year old child( Its just too hard for the parents to raise him) quit my job and jack off to my own internet posts all day, just like you.

Mr Jones · by **Mr Jones** on 08/21/08, 11:02 pm

I deleted all of my cookies, the ~~thing.~~

mr_spock · by **mr_spock** on 08/22/08, 5:00 am

Since none of you graduated "Weblinks 101" here's my data and link again.
http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/fb_induced_abortion.html

Here's Calypso's link, also good information, but read all of it, not just the parts you like.
http://shroudedindoubt.typepad.com/bodyparts/2005/05/thinking_about__2.html

Mr. Jones, they don't mention tire pressures anywhere. Try to stay on topic. They also don't mention "liberals and their animal children". If you're insulting enough than people will agree with you? Find a better strategy. How about arming yourself with actual data? What a concept.

I think this is the most important statement.
• Family planning clinics funded under Title X of the federal Public Health Service Act have helped women prevent 20 million unintended pregnancies during the last 20 years. An estimated nine million of these pregnancies would have ended in abortion.[23]
Is Family Planning a "socialist" thing?

Facts on Induced Abortion in the United States

July 2008
INCIDENCE OF ABORTION
• Nearly half of pregnancies among American women are unintended, and four in 10 of these are terminated by abortion.[1] Twenty-two percent of all pregnancies (excluding miscarriages) end in abortion.[2]
• Forty percent of pregnancies among white women, 69% among blacks and 54% among Hispanics are unintended.
• In 2005, 1.21 million abortions were performed, down from 1.31 million in 2000. From 1973 through 2005, more than 45 million legal abortions occurred.[2]
• Each year, about two percent of women aged 15-44 have an abortion; 47% of them have had at least one previous abortion.[3]
Number of abortions per 1,000 women aged 15-44, by year

• At least half of American women will experience an unintended pregnancy by age 45[4], and, at current rates, about one-third will have had an abortion.[5,6]
WHO HAS ABORTIONS?
• Fifty percent of U.S. women obtaining abortions are younger than 25: Women aged 20–24 obtain 33% of all abortions, and teenagers obtain 17%.[7]
• Thirty-seven percent of abortions occur to black women, 34% to non-Hispanic white women, 22% to Hispanic women and 8% to women of other races.**
• Forty-three percent of women obtaining abortions identify themselves as Protestant, and 27% as Catholic.[3]
• Women who have never married obtain two-thirds of all abortions.[3]
• About 60% of abortions are obtained by women who have one or more children.[7]
• The abortion rate among women living below the federal poverty level ($9,570 for a single woman with no children) is more than four times that of women above 300% of the poverty level (44 vs. 10 abortions per 1,000 women). This is partly because the rate of unintended pregnancies among poor women (below 100% of poverty) is nearly four times that of women above 200% of poverty* (112 vs. 29 per 1,000 women[3,1]
• The reasons women give for having an abortion underscore their understanding of the responsibilities of parenthood and family life. Three-fourths of women cite concern for or responsibility to other individuals; three-fourths say they cannot afford a child; three-fourths say that having a baby would interfere with work, school or the ability to care for dependents; and half say they do not want to be a single parent or are having problems with their husband or partner.[8]

I'm not sure how they get their % totals. It doesn't seem like many are college students.(Calypso)

CONTRACEPTIVE USE
• Fifty-four percent of women who have abortions had used a contraceptive method (usually the condom or the pill) during the month they became pregnant. Among those women, 76% of pill users and 49% of condom users report having used their method inconsistently, while 13% of pill users and 14% of condom users report correct use.[9]
• Forty-six percent of women who have abortions had not used a contraceptive method during the month they became pregnant. Of these women, 33% had perceived themselves to be at low risk for pregnancy, 32% had had concerns about contraceptive methods, 26% had had unexpected sex and 1% had been forced to have sex.[9]
• Eight percent of women who have abortions have never used a method of birth control; nonuse is greatest among those who are young, poor, black, Hispanic or less educated.[9]

Maybe some Planned Parenthood giveaways could have prevented some of those.

• About half of unintended pregnancies occur among the 11% of women who are at risk for unintended pregnancy but are not using contraceptives. Most of these women have practiced contraception in the past.[1,10]
PROVIDERS AND SERVICES
• The number of U.S. abortion providers declined by 2% between 2000 and 2005 (from 1,819 to 1,787). Eighty-seven percent of all U.S. counties lacked an abortion provider in 2005; 35% of women live in those counties.[2]
• Forty percent of providers offer very early abortions (even before the first missed period) and 96% offer abortion at eight weeks from the last menstrual period. Sixty-seven percent of providers offer at least some second-trimester abortion services (13 weeks or later), and 20% offer abortion after 20 weeks. Only 8% of all abortion providers offer abortions at 24 weeks.[2]
• The proportion of providers offering abortion at four or fewer weeks’ gestation increased from 7% in 1993 to 40% in 2005.[11]
• In 2005, the cost of a nonhospital abortion with local anesthesia at 10 weeks’ gestation ranged from $90 to $1,800; the average amount paid was $413.[2]
When women have abortions (in weeks from the last menstrual period)
Eighty-nine percent of abortions occur in the first 12 weeks of pregnancy, 2004.

MEDICATION ABORTION
• In September 2000, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration approved the abortion drug mifepristone to be marketed in the United States as an alternative to surgical abortion.
• In 2005, 57% of abortion providers, or 1,026 facilities, provided one or more medication abortions, a 70% increase from the first half of 2001. At least 10% of nonhospital abortion providers offer only medication abortion services.[2]
• Medication abortion accounted for 13% of all abortions, and 22% of abortions before nine weeks’ gestation, in 2005.[2]
SAFETY OF ABORTION
• The risk of abortion complications is minimal: Fewer than 0.3% of abortion patients experience a complication that requires hospitalization.[12]
• Abortions performed in the first trimester pose virtually no long-term risk of such problems as infertility, ectopic pregnancy, spontaneous abortion (miscarriage) or birth defect, and little or no risk of preterm or low-birth-weight deliveries.[13]
• Exhaustive reviews by panels convened by the U.S. and British governments have concluded that there is no association between abortion and breast cancer. There is also no indication that abortion is a risk factor for other cancers.[13]
• In repeated studies since the early 1980s, leading experts have concluded that abortion does not pose a hazard to women’s mental health.[14]
• The risk of death associated with abortion increases with the length of pregnancy, from one death for every one million abortions at or before eight weeks to one per 29,000 at 16–20 weeks—and one per 11,000 at 21 or more weeks.[15]

• Fifty-eight percent of abortion patients say they would have liked to have had their abortion earlier. Nearly 60% of women who experienced a delay in obtaining an abortion cite the time it took to make arrangements and raise money.[16]
• Teens are more likely than older women to delay having an abortion until after 15 weeks of pregnancy, when the medical risks associated with abortion are significantly higher.[17 ]

Perhaps if there was more help and less fear, fewer "later term" abortions would happen.

LAW AND POLICY
• In the 1973 Roe v. Wade decision, the Supreme Court ruled that women, in consultation with their physician, have a constitutionally protected right to have an abortion in the early stages of pregnancy—that is, before viability—free from government interference.
• In 1992, the Court reaffirmed the right to abortion in Planned Parenthood v. Casey. However, the ruling significantly weakened the legal protections previously afforded women and physicians by giving states the right to enact restrictions that do not create an "undue burden" for women seeking abortion.
• Thirty-five states currently enforce parental consent or notification laws for minors seeking an abortion. The Supreme Court ruled that minors must have an alternative to parental involvement, such as the ability to seek a court order authorizing the procedure.[18]
• Even without specific parental involvement laws, six in 10 minors who have an abortion report that at least one parent knew about it.[19]
• Congress has barred the use of federal Medicaid funds to pay for abortions, except when the woman’s life would be endangered by a full-term pregnancy or in cases of rape or incest.
• Seventeen states use public funds to pay for abortions for some poor women, but only four do so voluntarily; the rest do so under a court order.[20] About 13% of all abortions in the United States are paid for with public funds[21] (virtually all from state governments).[22]
• Family planning clinics funded under Title X of the federal Public Health Service Act have helped women prevent 20 million unintended pregnancies during the last 20 years. An estimated nine million of these pregnancies would have ended in abortion.[23]

mr_spock · by **mr_spock** on 08/22/08, 5:28 am

Seems McCain is all for boners but not birth control.

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